You stabilize the person with chest pains and send them to a bigger hospital with a cardiac unit. Small hospitals in small towns don't usually have those.cardinalkarp wrote: ↑September 26 21, 9:27 amSo you’re in a very small town w/ one hospital that has a very small number of ICU beds and a vaccinated person comes in w/ chest pains because of potential heart attack, but low and below you have 3 “less thans” taking up the beds.Joe Shlabotnik wrote: ↑September 26 21, 9:09 amAs long as we are at or above capacity at the hospitals, we need to rethink that.Socnorb11 wrote: ↑September 26 21, 8:01 amI agree, but that's not how it works. We're not going to throw Covid patients out of the hospital to make room for someone else. It's essentially first come, first served.BrntOrngStud wrote: ↑September 25 21, 6:27 pm
The unvaccinated should NOT be mistreated because they made a bad decision. But when it comes to rationing, they should be bottom billing. Not because of the punishment factor but because the survival of an anti-vaxxer over the survival of somebody who has a surgery postponed is a travesty. It just releases the person back into the world so they can continue to infect others while punishing someone for a non COVID related emergency. You aren't punishing the unvaccinated but rather allocating the resources in a way that account for epidemiological concerns.
Obviously this is purely hypothetical, but ICU’s fill up w/ all types of people.
Bed 1 : immunocompromised unvaccinated person (because they couldn’t get the vaccine because of their condition - but you know, still qualify as an unvaccinated)
Bed 2 : Car accident victim that happened to be drinking at the time of wreck (who is vaccinated)
Bed 3 : Prison inmate (also vaccinated) who was convicted of rape.
Who ya pulling out of a bed?
Coronavirus
- CardsofSTL
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Re: Coronavirus
- Joe Shlabotnik
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Re: Coronavirus
Those three can stay. I got no problem if a doctor has told someone not to vaccinate because of their immune system. The number of those don't get in the way of what the vaccine affords the community in terms of protection.
But anybody who's been loud and proud about their freedoms while disregarding public safety can get better on their own.
But anybody who's been loud and proud about their freedoms while disregarding public safety can get better on their own.
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Re: Coronavirus
This is a more realistic hypothetical occuring in quite a few hospitals across the country.
100 ICU bed capacity
30: Beds taken up by unvaccinated COVID patients (reasons for unvaccinated are largely non-medical)
3: Beds taken up by vaccinated COVID patients
67: Non COVID related
Patient 101 comes into the hospital post Cesarean day 7, has a retroperitoneal hemotoma with Hgb of 5. Patient is transfused in ED and discharged without monitoring. Patient 101 suffers a severe abdominal injury that results in traumatic retroperitoneal hemotoma and comes back into the ER with prognosis much poorer this time around.
100 ICU bed capacity
30: Beds taken up by unvaccinated COVID patients (reasons for unvaccinated are largely non-medical)
3: Beds taken up by vaccinated COVID patients
67: Non COVID related
Patient 101 comes into the hospital post Cesarean day 7, has a retroperitoneal hemotoma with Hgb of 5. Patient is transfused in ED and discharged without monitoring. Patient 101 suffers a severe abdominal injury that results in traumatic retroperitoneal hemotoma and comes back into the ER with prognosis much poorer this time around.
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Re: Coronavirus
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/a-d ... ntists-say
A daily pill to treat COVID could be just months away, scientists say
A daily pill to treat COVID could be just months away, scientists say
At least three promising antivirals for COVID are being tested in clinical trials, with results expected as soon as late fall or winter, said Carl Dieffenbach, director of the Division of AIDS at the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, who is overseeing antiviral development.
“I think that we will have answers as to what these pills are capable of within the next several months,” Dieffenbach said.
The top contender is a medication from Merck & Co. and Ridgeback Biotherapeutics called molnupiravir, Dieffenbach said. This is the product being tested in the Kellys’ Seattle trial. Two others include a candidate from Pfizer, known as PF-07321332, and AT-527, an antiviral produced by Roche and Atea Pharmaceuticals.
They work by interfering with the virus’s ability to replicate in human cells. In the case of molnupiravir, the enzyme that copies the viral genetic material is forced to make so many mistakes that the virus can’t reproduce. That, in turn, reduces the patient’s viral load, shortening infection time and preventing the kind of dangerous immune response that can cause serious illness or death.
So far, only one antiviral drug, remdesivir, has been approved to treat COVID. But it is given intravenously to patients ill enough to be hospitalized, and is not intended for early, widespread use. By contrast, the top contenders under study can be packaged as pills.
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Re: Coronavirus
Sweet. Hope they turn out to be effective. One thing the article goes on to talk about is the previous lack of development of oral anti-virals and the fierce competition to get them developed/approved now. It's sad it takes a pandemic to create what, seemingly, would have been a rather simple drug.GeddyWrox wrote: ↑September 26 21, 10:09 pmhttps://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/a-d ... ntists-say
A daily pill to treat COVID could be just months away, scientists say
At least three promising antivirals for COVID are being tested in clinical trials, with results expected as soon as late fall or winter, said Carl Dieffenbach, director of the Division of AIDS at the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, who is overseeing antiviral development.
“I think that we will have answers as to what these pills are capable of within the next several months,” Dieffenbach said.
The top contender is a medication from Merck & Co. and Ridgeback Biotherapeutics called molnupiravir, Dieffenbach said. This is the product being tested in the Kellys’ Seattle trial. Two others include a candidate from Pfizer, known as PF-07321332, and AT-527, an antiviral produced by Roche and Atea Pharmaceuticals.
They work by interfering with the virus’s ability to replicate in human cells. In the case of molnupiravir, the enzyme that copies the viral genetic material is forced to make so many mistakes that the virus can’t reproduce. That, in turn, reduces the patient’s viral load, shortening infection time and preventing the kind of dangerous immune response that can cause serious illness or death.
So far, only one antiviral drug, remdesivir, has been approved to treat COVID. But it is given intravenously to patients ill enough to be hospitalized, and is not intended for early, widespread use. By contrast, the top contenders under study can be packaged as pills.
Also, it was disheartening to see this:
Stuff like this is why there is such animosity towards the unvaxxed. Granted, this is one guys take, but...it carries a lot of weight. I'd have to imagine they would be better off, if possible, running these trials in a different country that has less access to the vaccine.One challenge in developing antiviral drugs quickly has been recruiting enough participants for the clinical trials, each of which needs to enroll many hundreds of people, said Dr. Elizabeth Duke, a Fred Hutch research associate overseeing its molnupiravir trial.
Participants must be unvaccinated and enrolled in the trial within five days of a positive COVID test. Any given day, interns make 100 calls to newly COVID-positive people in the Seattle area — and most say no.
“Just generally speaking, there’s a lot of mistrust about the scientific process,” Duke said. “And some of the people are saying kind of nasty things to the interns.”
- CardsofSTL
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Re: Coronavirus
Mike Shannon talked about how the hospital gave him remdesivir and that is when he turned the corner last December. Hope they are able to develop these medicines.
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Re: Coronavirus
Hopefully the treatment meds won't be "injected with microchips" so to speak. It's too bad polarity and misinformation are so valuable to some people these days. It would be nice if something meaningfully helpful could rise above that line. Maybe the pills can be shaped like guns or RBG depending on the audience like Flinstone Vitamins.
Online
So again, IMO this sounds more of a problem w/ the system…not the fact that you have some people who rightfully so, have questions about this vaccine and don’t want to be vaccinated.
Can someone please tell me who/what will be to blame when the hospitals start to see a swing in more and more vaccinated being admitted? I just want to be on top of the most latest excuses.
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Re: Coronavirus
So in actuality after the latest data coming to light we’re looking at 15% of hospital beds being taken up by unvaccinated patients for COVID, not just with COVID.BrntOrngStud wrote: ↑September 26 21, 7:11 pmThis is a more realistic hypothetical occuring in quite a few hospitals across the country.
100 ICU bed capacity
30: Beds taken up by unvaccinated COVID patients (reasons for unvaccinated are largely non-medical)
3: Beds taken up by vaccinated COVID patients
67: Non COVID related
Patient 101 comes into the hospital post Cesarean day 7, has a retroperitoneal hemotoma with Hgb of 5. Patient is transfused in ED and discharged without monitoring. Patient 101 suffers a severe abdominal injury that results in traumatic retroperitoneal hemotoma and comes back into the ER with prognosis much poorer this time around.
So again, IMO this sounds more of a problem w/ the system…not the fact that you have some people who rightfully so, have questions about this vaccine and don’t want to be vaccinated.
Can someone please tell me who/what will be to blame when the hospitals start to see a swing in more and more vaccinated being admitted? I just want to be on top of the most latest excuses.
Online
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Re: Coronavirus
Ignorance at its finest right here.BottenFieldofDreams wrote: ↑September 27 21, 10:15 amHopefully the treatment meds won't be "injected with microchips" so to speak. It's too bad polarity and misinformation are so valuable to some people these days. It would be nice if something meaningfully helpful could rise above that line. Maybe the pills can be shaped like guns or RBG depending on the audience like Flinstone Vitamins.
- BottenFieldofDreams
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Re: Coronavirus
I'm talking about AM Radio and some bozos I grew up with. Sadly, some family. You can have your own and better reasons not to get vaccinated and if you don't want gun-shaped medicine you don't have to take it--but some of them are going to be muzzle-loaders, which will be totally rad. And then there will be these bazooka anti-aircraft ones. And they'll come with little army men so you can play with them for a while first. These are going to be so cool.cardinalkarp wrote: ↑September 27 21, 10:20 amIgnorance at its finest right here.BottenFieldofDreams wrote: ↑September 27 21, 10:15 amHopefully the treatment meds won't be "injected with microchips" so to speak. It's too bad polarity and misinformation are so valuable to some people these days. It would be nice if something meaningfully helpful could rise above that line. Maybe the pills can be shaped like guns or RBG depending on the audience like Flinstone Vitamins.