Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse - Baltimore, MD

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Popeye_Card
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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse - Baltimore, MD

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AWvsCBsteeeerike3 wrote:
March 27 24, 11:44 pm

But within the first 5 minutes of the video I learn about refineries dumping [expletive] in diesel. Huh.
That guy has no clue what he is talking about. There are no "plastics" at the end of the refining process. Plastics are made from refining byproducts (all your -ene's and -ane's). And refiners certainly don't dump a bunch of bottoms into diesel batches - there are super-tight PQ specs on diesel (and jet fuel) in particular, and they have a huge exposure to lawsuits if they don't hit them. Bottoms are used to make asphalt so there is no incentive to dump little bits into clean products.

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse - Baltimore, MD

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Julio Cervantes was one of eight construction workers on the bridge when the Dali cargo ship’s lights flickered on and off and crashed into a support pillar, sending the bridge into the Patapsco River in the early hours of Tuesday.

He and another man were rescued that day; the bodies of two more were recovered Wednesday. The remaining four have not been found but are presumed dead.

“All of the men were on a break in their cars when the boat hit. We don't know if they were warned before the impact,” Cervantes' wife, who did not disclose her name, told NBC News on Thursday.

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse - Baltimore, MD

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse - Baltimore, MD

Post by Jocephus »

im sure none of us are shocked
This week, Grace Ocean Private Limited and Synergy Marine PTE LTD, the two firms that own and operate the ship, issued a court filing to limit their liability in the matter. In their joint legal petition, the companies claim that the bridge collapse “was not due to any fault, neglect, or want of care on the part of Petitioners, the Vessel, or any persons or entities for whose acts Petitioners may be responsible.”

Naturally, in cases like this, it isn’t out of the question for people or companies to get sued. The companies in question are clearly trying to get ahead of that whole process and limit the degree to which that can happen. Their legal argument relates to a 19th-century maritime law that could allow them to limit the amount of liability to the value of the vessel that caused the accident. That vessel—the cargo ship Dali—is currently worth around $42,500,000, as of the “termination of the voyage,” the filing notes. The filing also estimates that the current projected costs for fixing and salvaging the ship are tens of millions of dollars.

The Associated Press notes that this kind of legal petition is actually a “routine but important procedure for cases litigated under U.S. maritime law” and is not uncommon when it comes to accidents like this. Still, it’ll be up to a court to decide whether to buy that argument or not. Given that there is a literal video of the ship slamming into the bridge, it would seem difficult to argue that no responsibility exists, but I am not a lawyer.
https://gizmodo.com/owners-of-cargo-shi ... 1851380182

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse - Baltimore, MD

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Worth a shot, I guess. This is like when you get a ticket for reckless speeding and you show up to the court date hoping the cop who pulled you over is too busy to show up.

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse - Baltimore, MD

Post by AdmiralKird »

What's Going on With Shipping did a thing on how the insurance works, essentially its capped at $3.1 Billion through a number of multiple layers of structuring. Costs will probably exceed this so they will probably have to fight a whole bunch of lawsuits. It's not just the wrongful deaths, cleanup, and bridge construction, but anyone dumping off cargo will be going to other ports and then the owners of the cargo will be on the hook to ship it from there to its real end destination. So everyone is going to be going after the owners of the vessel.

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse - Baltimore, MD

Post by Arthur Dent »

NTSB preliminary report has been released:

https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/Doc ... rt%203.pdf

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse - Baltimore, MD

Post by AWvsCBsteeeerike3 »

Looks like they never got the prop spinning again even when they got electrical power back and that swing was just current/wind? Crazy how little the rudder did.

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse - Baltimore, MD

Post by Arthur Dent »

AWvsCBsteeeerike3 wrote:
May 15 24, 9:55 am
Looks like they never got the prop spinning again even when they got electrical power back and that swing was just current/wind? Crazy how little the rudder did.
Finally got a chance to read the report.

Seems like, yes, the main engine shut down shortly after the first blackout, and they never got it started again, so all the speculation about reverse thrust was off base. It also sounds like they had rudder control, but without the prop running, it had almost no effect.

Looking at the timeline annotated map confirms my conclusion that the major course deviation didn't really get going during the first blackout but kicked off in earnest after power is restored and, apparently, right around the time they tried to drop anchor. I will be interested to read in the final report whether it's possible that the anchor drop was mistake, but it's probably more likely that it just didn't do much, there was a change in the current or wind, and they just had no control without the engine.

Another interesting thread is that it seems like maybe they had power to the bow thruster during most of the incident sequence as it is connected to the hv bus which stayed powered through the first blackout and, it sounds like, only briefly dropped out in the second blackout. I have no idea if it was genuinely available or would have been effective, but hopefully that will get some analysis.

Stepping back, it sounds like emergency backup systems are largely useless in achieving any maneuvering. You must get the main engine going to have any hope. if that's the case, seems like you're just gambling that you never lose power at a critical time.

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse - Baltimore, MD

Post by AWvsCBsteeeerike3 »

@Arthur Dent
Yep. I was totally wrong. *shrugs*

Echoing what you said, it seems very odd that there is a single point of failure (in this case electrical breakers HR1 and LR1 opening/tripping) which caused loss of power to the cooling pumps which caused the main engine to shut down. You'd think everything critical to the engine (eg, the pumps) would have an emergency backup, like less than 10 seconds. And, that would either prevent the engine from shutting down completely or would allow it to be functional within a very short time, again, thinking less than 10 seconds.

I didn't see where they said what was required to get the main engine back. Suffice to say, they didn't. Not sure if they would have had DGR3 and DGR4 not tripped causing the 2nd blackout. But, even if they did, they were rapidly running out of time.

Kind of the worst case scenario unfolded. The bridge wasn't protected, the ship lost power at exactly the wrong time, and the conditions dictated the course from there which unfortunately was right into the unprotected pier.

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