Best Damned Health Care Anywhere!

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IMADreamer
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Re: Best Damned Health Care Anywhere!

Post by IMADreamer »

AWvsCBsteeeerike3 wrote:
IMADreamer wrote:The problem is people are lazy. If they weren't they'd all be Mitt Romney and wouldn't have to worry about health care.


In all seriousness and not to make it too political but this is where the Republicans are masters at what they do. They have managed to get a huge chunk of the population to demonize and vote against what is best for them. It's amazing and horribly sad. All in the name of outrageous profits. I honestly can't believe there aren't more shootings at clinics, hospitals, and nursing homes over the extreme amount of stress and financial distress our horribly corrupt, and extremely [expletive] health care system.
Republicans had neither control of the House, Senate or White House when the health care reform was passed. While what you're saying may be true, and I don't really care because it would take too much time to go through it all, it's not their fault that the single payer option was killed, it's the health care companies paying politicians... Mike Ross is one...turns out republicans aren't the only politicians that health care companies own.
Let me be clear that both political parties are completely bought and paid for by the health care lobby among others. However my point was it was the Right to put the most money into turning the public against UHC. It was just proof of the corruption on the left that they didn't put up a fight against the rights propaganda.

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vinsanity
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Re: Best Damned Health Care Anywhere!

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AWvsCBsteeeerike3 wrote:
vinsanity wrote:
AWvsCBsteeeerike3 wrote:it's the health care companies paying politicians
We've had this discussion you and I before, but I don't think it's fair to state this as fact. The democrats did not have a filibuster proof majority and they didn't have unanimous support within their own party on UHC.
So, we agree, that the democrats didn't fully support the UHC.
Yes. I do not, however, agree with your assertion it was 100% because the health care lobby owns politicians. Some were more centrists democrats, some wanted to avoid being miscast as 'communists' because of re-election concerns in battle ground districts/states. Of course, re-election campaigns are influenced by lobbyists and donation dollars so there was certainly catering to their interests and compromise at hand, but I think had the democrats had a filibuster proof majority (or balls) we would have seen at the very least a public option and likely something more closely resembling UHC, with or without a health care lobby. I think that asserting the quoted statement as fact is a bit disingenuous.

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Re: Best Damned Health Care Anywhere!

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Popeye_Card wrote:
cards2468 wrote:
heyzeus wrote:We're already paying for universal healthcare; we're simply doing it in the most expensive, inefficient, financially destructive and medically risky way imaginable. If you show up to the ER bleeding/stroking/cancering, you'll get treated. The bill will be 5 or 6 figures. Much much higher than the cost of preventative health care that could have helped prevent your stroke/heart attack/diabetes/cancer.

Your choices are: Pay, and your entire family is financially ruined. Not pay, and your life enters debt collector hell, maybe file for bankruptcy at some point, and maybe never get a house or good job again. Oh, and every other person who receives health care (ie, all of us) ultimately foot the bill in terms of higher costs.
This is pretty much the reason even as a fiscal conservative that I would like to see some plans put together for how we could make UHC work.
See my plans in another thread (not sure which one--they all run together).

Three-pronged approach to health care and insurance:

a.) Government runs emergency care (i.e. ER type stuff) and public health stuff like immunizations.
b.) Traditional health insurance covers the longer-term diseases, etc. (cancer, whatnot). In part paid by your employer like it currently is, only costs should go down since ER stuff is cut out.
c.) Wellness clinics for checkup/prevention are in part paid by your employer, otherwise paid for you. I see this as "routine maintenance"--you wouldn't use your car insurance to pay for an oil change, why would you want health insurance to cover your health maintenance?

There's still a few gaps (like how do you have babies? basic coverage under a., more extensive coverage under b.?). But I think this is more sensible in general than the cluster [expletive] we have now.
I like this...but you still have a problem of people avoiding (c) due to financial problems and relying on (a)...which is expensive.

Prevention is incredibly cheap to fund...give me (a) and (c) under UHC and let people/employer fund (b).

If UHC covers (a) and (c), I can see (b)'s cost being quite minimal.

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Joe Shlabotnik
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Re: Best Damned Health Care Anywhere!

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AWvsCBsteeeerike3 wrote: Republicans had neither control of the House, Senate or White House when the health care reform was passed. While what you're saying may be true, and I don't really care because it would take too much time to go through it all, it's not their fault that the single payer option was killed, it's the health care companies paying politicians... Mike Ross is one...turns out republicans aren't the only politicians that health care companies own.
++++

If I've learned nothing else from Barack Obama, its that both parties are thoroughly owned by the same interests. It took me decades to come to that conclusion. Or maybe it took decades for the pretense to be done away with and the power to be so baldly displayed. Still trying to figure that out.

And the election coming up between Romney and Obama. The only difference is which extremists their particular party humors on the edges. When it comes to governing, its all the same policies to benefit the same constituencies.

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Re: Best Damned Health Care Anywhere!

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IMADreamer wrote: They have managed to get a huge chunk of the population to demonize and vote against what is best for them. It's amazing and horribly sad.
How do you know that their. Voting against what's best for them? I absolutely hate this argument, I want to decide what's best for me not have someone tell me what's best for me.

You want government run healthcare look at the VA and what a mess that is.

Medicare and Medicare don't pay.

How many people are actually unable to receive care due to no insurance?

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Re: Best Damned Health Care Anywhere!

Post by TimeForGuinness »

Diddy wrote:
IMADreamer wrote: They have managed to get a huge chunk of the population to demonize and vote against what is best for them. It's amazing and horribly sad.
How do you know that their. Voting against what's best for them? I absolutely hate this argument, I want to decide what's best for me not have someone tell me what's best for me.

You want government run healthcare look at the VA and what a mess that is.

Medicare and Medicare don't pay.

How many people are actually unable to receive care due to no insurance?
The government does some pretty stupid things, but they also do some incredible things too, though...much like everything and everyone in life. I think you could have a blend of private and public sector health care systems like Popeye and I have discussed.

If the Postal Service/UPS/FedEx can exist in the same space, why can't healthcare?
If the library system/Amazon/B&N can exist in the same space, why can't healthcare?

Covering preventative care should be a no-brainer, it's cheap to fund and the long term benefits drive down costs for everyone. I think it's a good compromise for everyone and if the government wanted to hire contractors to implement it, well that's fine too. They already do that for the military.

The point I'm trying to make is lets find the best/most efficient way to keep everyone in good health. Is it a fully funded government-run universal healthcare? Is it a private sector only? Is it a blend of the two? Or do we not allow people without insurance access to healthcare?

I don't know...but I know we need to compromise and come up with something sooner rather than later.

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Re: Best Damned Health Care Anywhere!

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I'm not 100% against something but I'm not sure what I'd b for. Obamacare has had a very direct negative effect in my families life, then imadreamer has the arrogance to suggest that since I'm against it I don't know what's best for my family. That [expletive] pisses me off

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vinsanity
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Re: Best Damned Health Care Anywhere!

Post by vinsanity »

Diddy wrote:I'm not 100% against something but I'm not sure what I'd b for. Obamacare has had a very direct negative effect in my families life, then imadreamer has the arrogance to suggest that since I'm against it I don't know what's best for my family. That [expletive] pisses me off
I don't think he was suggesting everyone against it is voting against their own best interests, just tat the GOP's PR moves are much more persuasive and effective than the Democrats. The GOP drummed up the Death Panel's lie among others to try and defeat health care. They were able to scare away some people who likely would have most benefited from a single payer system or Obamacare.

People who were/are against things that would be in their best interests not because of personal principles or values or opinions but because Sean Hannity told them that illegal Muslim President wants to turn us in to communists and let government bureaucrats decide whether or not granny gets that artificial hip.

The left tries, but the GOP has long mastered that game.

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AWvsCBsteeeerike3
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Re: Best Damned Health Care Anywhere!

Post by AWvsCBsteeeerike3 »

Diddy wrote:Obamacare has had a very direct negative effect in my families life.
If you don't mind sharing, how so?

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IMADreamer
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Re: Best Damned Health Care Anywhere!

Post by IMADreamer »

Diddy wrote:I'm not 100% against something but I'm not sure what I'd b for. Obamacare has had a very direct negative effect in my families life, then imadreamer has the arrogance to suggest that since I'm against it I don't know what's best for my family. That [expletive] pisses me off
How has Obamacare had a negative effect on your life? It's been a God send for one of my good friends whose son has cancer and couldn't get insurance until that part went into effect. Sounds pretty [expletive] good to me.

You can be against what ever but the facts are our country's health care system sucks. Period. We rank very low amongst developed nations even though we spend the most by far. Almost all nations that have a form of UHC rank higher then us in all medical barometers. We are heading to a point where only the wealthy will be able to afford to go get treatment. Sounds like a [expletive] conservative utopia, kill the poor, that's what they want. I hate getting all hyper political but the fact is the right spent billions running down systems like Canada, England, and Australia saying how horrible the care is there but they are just fear mongering to the [expletive] morons of this world who buy it hook line and sinker. Talk to people from Canada, England, and Australia and they will tell you they love their system and can't believe that a supposedly developed country like ours puts no value on human life and health. Then these same bastards that fear monger to the ignorant trumpet their supposed Christianity. Well how [expletive] Christian of them to celebrate and roll in their riches while millions die even though we have the means to save them.

I love the argument that you can go the the ER and get treated. Well guess what that doesn't work if you have cancer or need open heart surgery. Sure they will stabilize you but they sure the hell won't give you chemo, or do surgery. If you are delusional enough to thank different you need to stop by my office sometime. I live in a VERY poor area and donate a lot of time, money, and material to people who have no insurance, no money, and are dying of cancer or some other awful disease. The saddest part is they don't have to. BTW we are having a benefit cook out and bake sale for one on May 5th. Stop by and ask him how the health care system of the "greatest country in the world" did him? They kicked him to the [expletive] curb that's how they did him. The guy busted his ass his hole life, got cancer, couldn't work, and now is a few months from death. A death that could have been avoided had he had insurance.

So the next time Obama care has some how wronged you, you think about the millions out there who will die simply in the name of profits for giant companies like Express Scripts, United Heath Care, Signa, and BJC.

God Bless mother [expletive] America.

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