Rave: University of Chicago

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GeddyWrox
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Re: Rave: University of Chicago

Post by GeddyWrox »

33anda3rd wrote:
Tim wrote:
33anda3rd wrote:If one is a victim of rape and hears a rape joke on the quad, then the joker is an ass and should be awarded a bloody nose while being reported to the campus administration for his ugly and hurtful speech.
Really? I mean, the joke is in poor taste, ugly, hurtful, and nothing that I would condone, but what would you have a campus administrator do about it?
Explain to the turd that telling jokes about women being violently sexually assaulted is in poor taste and that it not only offends women and victims of rape but also all people with taste and dignity and self-respect.

Explain to the turd that as an administrator it's my job to provide a nice environment for learning and growth. And that I'm not doing my job if my campus is molding young minds to think that rape is something to laugh and joke about. And that I'm not doing my job if my campus is a place where female students hear male students say out loud that women being attacked sexually is a laughing matter. I'd explain that these are not matters of political differences in opinion but that demonstrably rape is incredibly wrong and therefore making these jokes aloud in public is unacceptable.

Then I'd probably send a letter to the parents and let them know that if any such behavior occurred again that Jr. would be asked to leave campus because his language was demonstrating to the campus that violent sexual acts are funny, and I don't condone it as Dean or whatever.

Voila. I don't need to let the students self-govern with safe spaces, I just need to hold turds accountable.
By and large, this is still not happening today. And with the whole "PC is bad" / "Trump is admirable because he says what he wants" it's not going to happen any time soon.

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Re: Rave: University of Chicago

Post by GeddyWrox »

33anda3rd wrote:
GeddyWrox wrote:Let me put it this way...

If gay or trans person takes a sociology or psychology class that clearly states they are going to dive into LGBTQ issues, they should be prepared to participate in class -- even if Donald Trump Jr is in that class claiming something horrible like "the queers should all be given the Matthew Sheppard treatment". Horrible? Yes. Triggering? Yes. But it's a possibility that someone in that class might feel that way. They shouldn't get to preemptively duck out of the class on the chance that someone might say something like that.

HOWEVER. If someone DOES say something like that, and it upsets that person, they should have a safe zone they can go to where they know there won't be judgement, resentment, hatred. They should have a place they can go to recenter themselves. If a university is willing to provide that space, why should they have it taken away??? It just seems mean spirited.
Why can't their dorm room be a safe space?
It is. But if that's the only place they feel like they can go, why even bother going to college?
33anda3rd wrote:Why can't a meeting of the campus LGBTQ group be a safe space?
Because it's a public forum and they might have to allow others to voice ugly thoughts.

33anda3rd wrote:Why can't the campus bar where all the hipster artsy kids hang out, or the campus gay bar be a safe space?
Again, PUBLIC spaces.
33anda3rd wrote:Those safe spaces exist.
Have you asked many LGBTQ people if they feel truly safe in any/all of the places you listed? The trans folks I know don't feel entirely safe ANYWHERE.
33anda3rd wrote:My problem is with when students want to use their safe spaces as a way of claiming public space as a place where no one but them and their ideas can be heard. That is quite dangerous in my opinion, in the kind of adults it breeds and the kind of message it sends to these kids.
But those safe spaces aren't PUBLIC spaces. They are private spaces where they can feel the type of safety you and I feel in our heteronormative world.

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Re: Rave: University of Chicago

Post by 33anda3rd »

Jocks don't go in gay bars. Bros don't show up to campus meetings of LGBTQ people. These are scenarios that either don't exist or are outliers. I'm an ally, 100%, but some people creating excuses and bullying the bullies to shield themselves from other ideas, even ugly ones, creates a future generation worse than the current one.

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Re: Rave: University of Chicago

Post by GeddyWrox »

I know you're an ally 33. We just happen to disagree on this one thing. No biggie. In the grand scheme of things, there are way more important things to debate. But on this particular topic on this board, I didn't see anyone else offering up the reasons why they should be considered.

So, back to the topic...
Jocks don't go in gay bars.
No, but after Pulse, I don't think anyone will feel truly safe in a public place like that again for a LONG time.

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Re: Rave: University of Chicago

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I disagree that people in gay bars will feel unsafe for a long time. The same as people don't stay away from tall buildings in New York, the Pentagon, community centers in San Francisco, movie theaters, public schools, walking on the Champs Elysees, and so on. I know we align politically, but I think you're being a bit hyperbolic about gay bars not being safe places for gay Americans. They've been refuges for LGBTQ people for probably a century and will continue to be. I don't think one event changes that.

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Re: Rave: University of Chicago

Post by Freed Roger »

GeddyWrox wrote: There's a difference between simply having your ideas challenged, and being forced to endure topics that bring up raw emotions about things like rape, abuse, racism, homophobia.
Stuff like that doesn't come up much in business school. Can people with PTSD and sensitivity to certain topics just look at course descriptions and not schedule what they can't handle?
If going into education, counseling, psychology, criminal justice, medicine -probably need to deal with those topics some and better to confront in college.
Last edited by Freed Roger on August 26 16, 3:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Rave: University of Chicago

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I ask this sincerely, 33. Is that based on assumptions you're making via your own life experiences, or have you talked to LGBTQ people directly about how they feel in public? What you're saying sounds similar to when a white person says that a black person can't really feel threatened by ALL police. Because that's the world the white person is used to. That's their reality. That's the world view that shaped their opinion.

My church's pastor is a gender-queer person, and they were posting after Pulse, quite literally, that they had just started to feel like the tide was turning a bit and maybe, just maybe, they could exist feeling safe in the world, and then BLAM. Pulse. And now they don't feel that way anymore. And it wasn't just them. I saw many other people post similar things. So when I say what I said, I'm not being hyperbolic in the least. It's sentiment from actual people that I actually know. People that I've hugged and worshipped with. I am listening to the feelings and experiences of those people who were much more closely affected by it that I was. Same as I think we need to listen to PoC when it comes to racism issues. It's easy to fall back on our life experiences and think it really is the way we perceive it, when it's not.

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Re: Rave: University of Chicago

Post by Freed Roger »

There were some extra eccentric but generally good teachers at my college. Perhaps because Kirksville MO is sort of a remote outpost, that is what landed there.

Anyways, for Art Apprec -this one teacher had a terrible rug on his head, he kind of looked like Shemp (from Stooges) only with glasses.

He made us buy his book, some short stories to cover in his class. One story was real raunchy un a creepy way saga involved descriptions a young teen girl's first "experiences" by virtue of an older man.

I don't have a moral to this story. I think i came away not-damaged and still appreciate art. Maybe he wanted to give example of sh#tty art for better appreciation.

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Re: Rave: University of Chicago

Post by 33anda3rd »

GeddyWrox wrote:I ask this sincerely, 33. Is that based on assumptions you're making via your own life experiences, or have you talked to LGBTQ people directly about how they feel in public? What you're saying sounds similar to when a white person says that a black person can't really feel threatened by ALL police. Because that's the world the white person is used to. That's their reality. That's the world view that shaped their opinion.

My church's pastor is a gender-queer person, and they were posting after Pulse, quite literally, that they had just started to feel like the tide was turning a bit and maybe, just maybe, they could exist feeling safe in the world, and then BLAM. Pulse. And now they don't feel that way anymore. And it wasn't just them. I saw many other people post similar things. So when I say what I said, I'm not being hyperbolic in the least. It's sentiment from actual people that I actually know. People that I've hugged and worshipped with. I am listening to the feelings and experiences of those people who were much more closely affected by it that I was. Same as I think we need to listen to PoC when it comes to racism issues. It's easy to fall back on our life experiences and think it really is the way we perceive it, when it's not.
Thanks for sharing, I'll definitely spend some time thinking about it.

I work with a lot of marginalized people. Largely without higher education, many immigrants, many young people, many LGBTQ people, many struggling artists who are working in this industry to make ends meet, many single women, many single mothers, etc. I feel pretty well exposed to people who are not straight white Christian mainstreamers, and as a result they're a lot of my social media friends and feed. So I feel like I'm pretty well tuned to their thoughts and feelings. What I heard post-Orlando was a lot more along the line of "this is another attack on us in a long line of attacks" by LGBTQ people who have dealt with a lifetime of being insulted and marginalized, rather than people saying that it was a game-changer for their safety and social lives. I have also talked with a gay couple who are more worried about the radical Islam angle of that incident than they are with it having happened in a gathering place for LGBTQ people. Anyway, that's what I've heard and where I'm coming from on it.

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Re: Rave: University of Chicago

Post by GeddyWrox »

33anda3rd wrote:
GeddyWrox wrote:I ask this sincerely, 33. Is that based on assumptions you're making via your own life experiences, or have you talked to LGBTQ people directly about how they feel in public? What you're saying sounds similar to when a white person says that a black person can't really feel threatened by ALL police. Because that's the world the white person is used to. That's their reality. That's the world view that shaped their opinion.

My church's pastor is a gender-queer person, and they were posting after Pulse, quite literally, that they had just started to feel like the tide was turning a bit and maybe, just maybe, they could exist feeling safe in the world, and then BLAM. Pulse. And now they don't feel that way anymore. And it wasn't just them. I saw many other people post similar things. So when I say what I said, I'm not being hyperbolic in the least. It's sentiment from actual people that I actually know. People that I've hugged and worshipped with. I am listening to the feelings and experiences of those people who were much more closely affected by it that I was. Same as I think we need to listen to PoC when it comes to racism issues. It's easy to fall back on our life experiences and think it really is the way we perceive it, when it's not.
Thanks for sharing, I'll definitely spend some time thinking about it.

I work with a lot of marginalized people. Largely without higher education, many immigrants, many young people, many LGBTQ people, many struggling artists who are working in this industry to make ends meet, many single women, many single mothers, etc. I feel pretty well exposed to people who are not straight white Christian mainstreamers, and as a result they're a lot of my social media friends and feed. So I feel like I'm pretty well tuned to their thoughts and feelings. What I heard post-Orlando was a lot more along the line of "this is another attack on us in a long line of attacks" by LGBTQ people who have dealt with a lifetime of being insulted and marginalized, rather than people saying that it was a game-changer for their safety and social lives. I have also talked with a gay couple who are more worried about the radical Islam angle of that incident than they are with it having happened in a gathering place for LGBTQ people. Anyway, that's what I've heard and where I'm coming from on it.
:thumb:

eta: I hear where you're coming from too. Thanks for sharing as well.

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