Alcohol Curtailment

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Jocephus
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Re: Alcohol Curtailment

Post by Jocephus »

this has been an interesting thread and i keep thinking i would add my personal history but just never feel like i have the time to write it all out etc. i have a half day today at work but still don't think i can get anything done today. one thing that did strike me is when AW mentions what is "normal". thats always an interesting question.
AWvsCBsteeeerike3 wrote:
But, to the point of how difficult it is to establish a 'normal', what's wrong with 27 drinks in a roughly 60 hour timespan over the weekend? What would America accept as normal? 6 drinks? 9 drinks? What's better, 27 drinks over 27 hours @ a drink per hour or 9 drinks over 4 hours on Saturday night? Or are they both bad, and if so, is 9 drinks not normal? Does that need to be clarified too. I mean, how small of a green are we trying to hit here?

It's like America has a contradictory stance on the substance. Definitely drink. But make sure you drink responsibly *wink, wink, nod, grin*
i remember on forms or even questions from docs they're like "how many drinks do you consume in a week" and then you have to try and calculate "well, what is a drink", that kind of stuff. i just pulled this off mayoclinic as what they define as "moderate"
Defining moderate

Moderate alcohol use for healthy adults generally means up to one drink a day for women and up to two drinks a day for men.

Examples of one drink include:

Beer: 12 fluid ounces (355 milliliters)
Wine: 5 fluid ounces (148 milliliters)
Distilled spirits (80 proof): 1.5 fluid ounces (44 milliliters)
https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-life ... t-20044551

but i'm sure there are other medical analyses out there that would have a different barometer.

i also definitely agree america has a contradictory stance on it.

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AWvsCBsteeeerike3
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Re: Alcohol Curtailment

Post by AWvsCBsteeeerike3 »

I'll just say it, I've never been a fan of having a singular drink. What's the point? And, I have zero interest in being a moderate drinker by those definitions. I'd rather not drink at all and it's not even close to a difficult decision.

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Fat_Bulldog
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Re: Alcohol Curtailment

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Yeah. I guess I'm an alcoholic too.

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Re: Alcohol Curtailment

Post by Michael »

AWvsCBsteeeerike3 wrote:I'll just say it, I've never been a fan of having a singular drink. What's the point? And, I have zero interest in being a moderate drinker by those definitions. I'd rather not drink at all and it's not even close to a difficult decision.
Not being able to have just one is very much a problem drinker mentality. I'm exactly the same way. I've come to the conclusion I'd rather not drink then get ripped and deal with all the baggage comes with it. I don't want the hangovers, the weight gain and shame anymore.

Like thrill, I've found a substitute. Vaping/eating weed isn't the best solution (abstinence is), but for me it's like going from a D- behavior to a B- behavior. That's a real life improvement. I even enjoy the actual high more than booze.

Also, I want to give haltz some serious props for his accomplishment and his willingness to be open in order to help others.

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33anda3rd
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Re: Alcohol Curtailment

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AWvsCBsteeeerike3 wrote: I certainly didn't mean to imply it's normal, per se.

But, to the point of how difficult it is to establish a 'normal', what's wrong with 27 drinks in a roughly 60 hour timespan over the weekend? What would America accept as normal? 6 drinks? 9 drinks? What's better, 27 drinks over 27 hours @ a drink per hour or 9 drinks over 4 hours on Saturday night? Or are they both bad, and if so, is 9 drinks not normal? Does that need to be clarified too. I mean, how small of a green are we trying to hit here?

It's like America has a contradictory stance on the substance. Definitely drink. But make sure you drink responsibly *wink, wink, nod, grin*
I don't see the wink wink in the "drink responsibly" marketing. I have to drink for work. I have to go to a lot of events at night. I'm REALLY good at taking 90 minutes to finish a mezcal and soda or a High Life. I can drink 99% of America under the table but I opt to have 3 drinks in a 6-hour night. I get home at a reasonable hour, I sleep well, I'm up and clear in the AM, I'm not ignoring kids or other life responsibilities, I'm not actively drinking even though I'm drinking--I drink responsibly.

I also don't think of someone who has 27 drinks over the weekend as having 27 drinks in 60 hours, I think of it as 27 drinks in 27 hours--basically all the waking non-morning hours between 6PM Friday and 11PM Sunday (11PM = bedtime in this equation.) To me, and I'm no clinician, anyone having a drink in their hand whenever they feel they have the excuse of it being socially acceptable to drink--there's a game on, we're at a game, we're pre-gaming, we went for one after the game, it was with dinner, it was while I was cooking dinner, it was to relax after dinner, it was just a nightcap, I just got home and the wife is on my ass--should maybe google "is my drinking a problem" to take a little quiz or possibly talk to their doctor honestly about how many drinks they're consuming rather than take my word for it on the internet.
Last edited by 33anda3rd on November 27 19, 10:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Alcohol Curtailment

Post by AWvsCBsteeeerike3 »

Agreed, really appreciate haltz sharing.

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Re: Alcohol Curtailment

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AWvsCBsteeeerike3 wrote:I'll just say it, I've never been a fan of having a singular drink.
A glass of 100% Carignan from the Languedoc with a mid-rare burger.
A glass of Napa Cab with a mid-rare steak.
A porter with chicken in mole.
A glass of champagne with a dozen oysters and some mignonette and hot sauce.
A glass of champagne with a greasy Chicago-style hot dog.
A cold, dank IPA with Indian food.
A Tecate with a basket of carne asada tacos.

Are some of the great pleasures in life. Being able to enjoy that one drink with those things is not impossible.

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Re: Alcohol Curtailment

Post by AWvsCBsteeeerike3 »

Regarding substituting alcohol for something else, I have no real interest in smoking either. I've never been a fan and have no intention of going down that path.

Not that this is relevant, but it still is a funny story. So, here you go. In college, I lived with 5 other guys. One of them dipped probably 2 cans a day. Dude just always had a dip in. Always. And it was always about the size of a golfball. One sunday night he goes, hey man, I'm going to quit dipping. I said good job. Way to go. So, I get home from classes about 10:30 monday morning and he's sitting there watching TV. Empty plate, beer in hand, lit cigar in the ashtray. I said, uh, how's the not dipping treating you. He goes...well, not very well. I got home and really wanted one. So, I decided to have a cigar instead. But, I couldn't just have a cigar without eating so I got a ham sandwich. Figured, if I was going to have a ham sandwich and cigar, might as well have a beer too.

Uh huh. I think he was dipping again within a couple days.

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Re: Alcohol Curtailment

Post by wart57 »

I can easily have 1 beer and then nothing else, or a glass of wine and nothing else. I don't need anything to help me cope with life - not saying any of you folks do - just I know quite a few people who need to drink or smoke weed just to deal with life.

I have a very high stress job, and an unbelievably stressful wife, but I get pleasure from small things, like listening to music, or stupid sports radio, or even drinking a Mt. Dew or a Dr. Pepper. I just don't need a drink or anything else to get me through life. (Except maybe the Mt. Dew.)

I just keep coming back to the same conclusion too - none of us get out of this alive - so what does any of it really matter? Other than helping others, being kind and considerate to EVERYONE around you, and being as good to the planet as you can be, nothing really matters.

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Re: Alcohol Curtailment

Post by AWvsCBsteeeerike3 »

33anda3rd wrote:
AWvsCBsteeeerike3 wrote: I certainly didn't mean to imply it's normal, per se.

But, to the point of how difficult it is to establish a 'normal', what's wrong with 27 drinks in a roughly 60 hour timespan over the weekend? What would America accept as normal? 6 drinks? 9 drinks? What's better, 27 drinks over 27 hours @ a drink per hour or 9 drinks over 4 hours on Saturday night? Or are they both bad, and if so, is 9 drinks not normal? Does that need to be clarified too. I mean, how small of a green are we trying to hit here?

It's like America has a contradictory stance on the substance. Definitely drink. But make sure you drink responsibly *wink, wink, nod, grin*
I don't see the wink wink in the "drink responsibly" marketing. I have to drink for work. I have to go to a lot of events at night. I'm REALLY good at taking 90 minutes to finish a mezcal and soda or a High Life. I can drink 99% of America under the table but I opt to have 3 drinks in a 6-hour night. I get home at a reasonable hour, I sleep well, I'm up and clear in the AM, I'm not ignoring kids or other life responsibilities, I'm not actively drinking even though I'm drinking--I drink responsibly.

I also don't think of someone who has 27 drinks over the weekend as having 27 drinks in 60 hours, I think of it as 27 drinks in 27 hours--basically all the waking non-morning hours between 6PM Friday and 11PM Sunday (11PM = bedtime in this equation.) To me, and I'm no clinician, anyone having a drink in their hand whenever they feel they have the excuse of it being socially acceptable to drink--there's a game on, we're at a game, we're pre-gaming, we went for one after the game, it was with dinner, it was while I was cooking dinner, it was to relax after dinner, it was just a nightcap, I just got home and the wife is on my ass--should maybe google "is my drinking a problem" to take a little quiz or possibly talk to their doctor honestly about how many drinks they're consuming rather than take my word for it on the internet.
So, if that's the definition you want to go with, can we change change 3/6 to 13/18, leave the rest the same and say it's drinking responsibly? If so, 13 beers over the course of the day is responsible by your definition.

Regarding seeing a doctor, how do you envision that conversation would go? Because here's how I imagine it playing out.
Me: Hey doc, I quit drinking a month and a half ago and see no discernible changes outside of being more lethargic now than before. Is my drinking a problem?
Doc: ...

Even if the goal was to get him to say there was a problem, it's something I've already corrected. And, let's be honest, doctors don't know more about drinking than any of us exluding the pathophysiological aspects to it (possibly) which are largely irrelevant on a grand scale. And, they don't know more than us because there's nothing to know. Back to my point about there not being a normal and as previously noted, there's no real guidelines for what is 'problematic'. Little is known for certain other than drinking, even moderate, increases risks of certain types of cancer and heavy drinking has a myriad of health problems associated with it. The alcohol companies tried to fund a study to prove that there are health benefits associated with moderate drinking but it was cancelled.

Regarding advertising, man, I don't want to come off as Carrie Nationy here but just look at the difference between tobacco and alcohol. Not apples to apples, but it's definitely not apples to charcoal either. Tobacco can't advertise on the air or on the radio. They don't name baseball stadiums after their products. They're forbidden from targeting minors with characters like Joe Camel. They had to get rid of the word 'light' on their products. Etc etc etc. Conversely, alcohol companies buy massive amounts of air time including the most sought after time slots. AB is probably the largest purchaser of Superbowl Ads the past however many decades trying to sell Bud Light using a variety of campaigns including the Clydesdale, frogs, and dogs of the top of my head.

To their credit, at least, I guess they do say 'drink responsibly' at the end of their commercials. But, is that effective. Probably not.

https://www.salon.com/2014/11/28/the_al ... y_partner/
In interviews, public health experts not involved in the Hopkins study said the findings were no surprise. “Drink responsibly messages are most likely ineffective and are most likely not even intended to really matter in any substantive way,” said Dr. Paul J. Chung, chief of general pediatrics at Mattel Children’s Hospital UCLA and a researcher who has studied alcohol advertising.

Although the industry’s efforts to curb problem drinking extend beyond the advertising messages, some experts also questioned the value of alcohol companies’ broader education campaigns. The companies “rely to a great extent on underage drinkers and abusive drinkers for the profits that they make. That’s just a fact,” said William DeJong, a public health professor at Boston University.

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