Our financial system is crumbling this week.

[longhornbaseball]

Makes some logical sense, but I wonder how much of a bump one can expect given that corporate balance sheets are very clean and, in some cases, flush with cash. Long-term rates were pretty low to begin with, so I am not sure long-term capital projects are going to be that more compelling given a drop in rates. I don't think the airlines will order more planes because of this, and most IT projects have much shorter payback requirements.

Our financial crisis has metastasized into a demand crisis. Projects are uneconomic not because of cost of capital concerns, but due to stagnating demand and other uncertainties.

Yep. What we need are fiscal solutions that target consumers, but we can't do that because we're bankrupt...

[AdmiralKird]

It's class warfare when the richest people in our country pay the least percentage in Taxes? Sounds like a war that needs to be fought.
I can already hear the right crying about how an increase in taxes on the rich will cause the rich business owners to lay off workers and stifle the growth of new businesses.

It's small business. Repeat after me, Ronald Reagan, small businesses, Ronald Reagan, small businesses...

[slide_into_first]

Ronald Reagan eliminated most tax deductions for the middle class effectively raising their tax rates. Why people think he was some kind of saint is a curiosity to me. He was a demented fool who did whatever Donald Regan told him to do.

[AdmiralKird]

Because he defeated the Nazi Communist Facists that bombed the Berlin Wall.

[slide_into_first]

You'll have to depict that in a cartoon.

[Hungary Jack]

It's class warfare when the richest people in our country pay the least percentage in Taxes? Sounds like a war that needs to be fought.
I can already hear the right crying about how an increase in taxes on the rich will cause the rich business owners to lay off workers and stifle the growth of new businesses.

It's small business. Repeat after me, Ronald Reagan, small businesses, Ronald Reagan, small businesses...

So the big corporations are evil because they are big and evil and run Congress. And small businesses aren't worth a [expletive] because they don't create enough jobs and are owned by greedy millionaires who cheat on taxes through their S-Corp filings.

I got it.

You guys kill me. You hate everything that has to do with any sort of enterprise, privately-generated wealth, and people wanting to keep more of what they earn.

[TimeForGuinness]

Something to think about:


I don't mind people keeping what they earn, but I want it to be fair. I don't want taxes to be so oppressive that it prevents people from pursuing upward mobility. But I also don't want an upper class with so much money & influence that they prevent people from pursuing upward mobility.

The discussion is about what is "fair" taxation...for everyone. That is something that is being left out of this discussion, how a bulk of the population doesn't pay any federal taxes. Everyone should have to pay something, even if it's $1 a year...it gives people ownership of their country. It lets people have a voice in how their tax dollar(s) should be spent. There is a danger of letting just one part of the population pay, they may ask for more control on how it's spent. Everyone should pay, everyone should have a voice.

[Joe Shlabotnik]

Yes! Exactly!

HJ - I think it is great that you have the gumption and energy to create and maintain a successful business. You deserve any wealth that comes from that. I don't hate you for it.

What I do hate is the feeling I get that many successful people have fallen into a Randian trap thinking they are, all by themselves, the ones who created that wealth. And I get the feeling there is a large part of our political class now dedicated to this 'ideal'. It holds false promise just as suredly as the Communist dream of 'to everyone according to their need from everyone according to their ability'. I read you and think, maybe prejudicially, that you want to keep as much of your wealth as you are able to keep even to the detriment of the society that provided you the framework for making that wealth. If that is true, your Randian ideal is alive and well in Somalia.

Something to think about:


I don't mind people keeping what they earn, but I want it to be fair. I don't want taxes to be so oppressive that it prevents people from pursuing upward mobility. But I also don't want an upper class with so much money & influence that they prevent people from pursuing upward mobility.

The discussion is about what is "fair" taxation...for everyone. That is something that is being left out of this discussion, how a bulk of the population doesn't pay any federal taxes. Everyone should have to pay something, even if it's $1 a year...it gives people ownership of their country. It lets people have a voice in how their tax dollar(s) should be spent. There is a danger of letting just one part of the population pay, they may ask for more control on how it's spent. Everyone should pay, everyone should have a voice.

[Popeye_Card]

Something to think about.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/ ... story.html

I believe the panel that looked at deficit reduction last winter had some very unpopular recommendations. Like getting rid of the ability to claim your mortgage interest. One of these days, we're going to need to bite the bullet. Nobody is willing. And nobody has the stones in congress to force them to.

[vinsanity]

So the big corporations are evil because they are big and evil and run Congress.

More or less.

And small businesses aren't worth a [expletive] because they don't create enough jobs and are owned by greedy millionaires who cheat on taxes through their S-Corp filings.

I don't think anyone was really poking fun at small business, just how it's the chant of the GOP in every financial discussion. "Can't raise taxes cause of small business! Letting the Bush Tax Cut's expire would hurt the middle class, like Joe The Plumber who owns his own plumbing business and makes $250k a year!"

You guys kill me. You hate everything that has to do with any sort of enterprise, privately-generated wealth, and people wanting to keep more of what they earn.

I fully expect people to want to keep more of what they earn. You don't get rich by cutting checks.

My problem isn't that they want to keep it, it's that they play the victim like we're taxing them to death, but taxes are at their lowest in 60 years. The complain about their rising share of taxes, but fail to mention the wages of the top 1% are up 400% since 1979 while the bottom 80% is flat. They ignore that 25% of millionaires pay a lower effective rate than 40% of earners who make between $30k-$40k a year. or that half a million people who made more than $100k last year paid no taxes, including 7,000 earners who made more than $1 Million Dollars in income.

The top 1% controls 42% of the wealth in this country and yet they paid 40% of the income taxes.

I think small businesses are great and part of the beauty of capitalism and you shouldn't be 'punished' for being an entrepreneur or successful. Things like national health care would help curb the costs for employers. Social Security and Medicare means employers don't have to pay or provide pensions. And most importantly, those 'Joe The Plumbers' of the world need a strong and upward moving working and middle class to pay for Joe's services. By giving the top 1% more and more and more of the pie we're doing the opposite.

Warren Buffet and Mark Cuban don't think they should more taxes cause their swell guys; they know if they pay more taxes it will keep us from cutting teacher's salaries, cutting fire protection in a terrible drought, from raising taxes on the middle class; things that will give Buffet's (subsidiaries) and Cuban's businesses a larger customer base and make more money.