The Trayvon Martin shooting

[obucard]

geez, obama....shut the [expletive] up. all your statements will do is cause a greater divide.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/obama-rel ... 06174.html

basically, a jury has decided so i'll respect their decision...but i think they made the wrong decision. way to go POTUS.

I didn't get that from his statement at all.

Neither did I.

[sighyoung]

I respect cardsfantx's interpretation, but I really think the phrase "honor" means "honor the memory"--that is, "serve as a memorial to" rather than "praise"--just as obituaries say that people can give a donation to a cause as a way of commemorating a life. He is speaking of appropriately mourning, not celebrating.

[cardsfantx]

I respect cardsfantx's interpretation, but I really think the phrase "honor" means "honor the memory"--that is, "serve as a memorial to" rather than "praise"--just as obituaries say that people can give a donation to a cause as a way of commemorating a life. He is speaking of appropriately mourning, not celebrating.

i can respect that if it were an isolated event, but obama from the beginning has been causing a stir in this. an example is saying if he had a son, he'd look just like travon martin. he appeared to take a "side" in this, IMO.

[Socnorb11]

I respect cardsfantx's interpretation, but I really think the phrase "honor" means "honor the memory"--that is, "serve as a memorial to" rather than "praise"--just as obituaries say that people can give a donation to a cause as a way of commemorating a life. He is speaking of appropriately mourning, not celebrating.

i can respect that if it were an isolated event, but obama from the beginning has been causing a stir in this. an example is saying if he had a son, he'd look just like travon martin. he appeared to take a "side" in this, IMO.

I guess you could interpret his initial remarks that way, but his statement today in no way threw the jurors under the bus.

[greenback44]

As for his injuries, there was expert testimony that they weren't consistent with a head being slammed into concrete. We don't even know for sure they were actually caused by Trayvon Martin.

Wikipedia describes Zimmerman as having a broken nose, two black eyes, and lacerations on the back of his head that night when the police arrived. There is no evidence he was hanging out with the local Fight Club, so I don't see a better explanation for his injuries.

Re: self-defense. IANAL either, but everything I have read on the case is that all Zimmerman needed was the preponderance of evidence -- basically 51% -- to support his claim of self-defense. His injuries get him a long way to that goal.

Following up on ghostrunner's redditor, I guess the prosecutor could have argued that walking around the neighborhood with a loaded gun while some derelict bastard was in the vicinity could amount to negligence. But that would be some creative prosecution, and I do not have great love for creative prosecutors. That said, this seems like poster child for gun control. It is bat [expletive] crazy that you carry a gun into a fist fight without repercussions.

[cardsfansince82]

Thanks for expounding on this..like others here, I took little more than a passing interest in the particulars, but again I come back to the prosecution's strategy...

This was a squirrelly situation from the beginning, IIRC--nobody in authority had any interest in prosecuting Zimmerman--it was only public pressure/outcry that compelled the DA to finally bring charges--long after the fact.

Your explanation (and the prosecution's 11th-hour request to expand the range of conviction options available to the jury) speak loudly to me that the prosecutors poorly prepared, and clearly bit off more than they could prove in prosecuting this as Murder-2...

The similarity of this case to OJ' s criminal trial are amazing-- with the announcement of the verdict, you have widespread righteous indignation about "the system" and the "absence of justice", when what it really boiled down to in both instances was the prosecution failing -- spectacularly -- to substantiate its case.

I definitely predicted he would not be convicted, partly because of the prosecution doing a poor job and partly out of pessimism that the justice system ever does the "right" thing.

It's interesting to note that in over half the states in the country he wouldn't have even been allowed to plead self defense in the circumstances of this case. Only 15-20 states allow you to use deadly force in a public space without any duty to retreat and without any other qualifications except that it was deemed "justified" with Florida being the most lenient. Every other state you either have to be witnessing a serious crime like rape or murder, or you have to attempt to retreat from the situation, or it's nullified if you are initially the aggressor, etc etc. I feel like this is something that all states should agree on, one way or the other.

[cardsfansince82]

As for his injuries, there was expert testimony that they weren't consistent with a head being slammed into concrete. We don't even know for sure they were actually caused by Trayvon Martin.

Wikipedia describes Zimmerman as having a broken nose, two black eyes, and lacerations on the back of his head that night when the police arrived. There is no evidence he was hanging out with the local Fight Club, so I don't see a better explanation for his injuries.

Re: self-defense. IANAL either, but everything I have read on the case is that all Zimmerman needed was the preponderance of evidence -- basically 51% -- to support his claim of self-defense. His injuries get him a long way to that goal.

The lacerations could have easily been caused during the scuffle, but not by anything Trayvon did. They also could have been caused by Trayvon, but are not consistent with someone getting their head slammed into concrete over and over. The broken nose and black eyes could be caused by as little as one punch to the face. None of the injuries even approach life threatening, which is part of establishing self defense. Those injuries are no different than a million other fistfights. You cannot exceed the threat you are facing.

Zimmerman picked a fight, figured out he was going to lose, but wasn't willing to take the beating (that wasn't going to kill him) that he clearly deserved. So he shot the kid and crafted his story to make it seem like he didn't have a choice.

[docellis]

Thought this was interesting:

A young man's post on Facebook about Zimmerman's future quickly went viral Sunday.
"For the rest of your life you are now going to feel what its like to be a black man in America," Alex Fraser wrote.
"You will feel people stare at you. Judging you for what you think are unfair reasons. You will lose out on getting jobs for something you feel is outside of your control. You will believe yourself to be an upstanding citizen and wonder why people choose to not see that. ...
"I bet you never thought that by shooting a black male you'd end up inheriting all of his struggles."
Fraser added, "Enjoy your 'freedom.'"

Also:

The federal government could file a civil rights suit, accusing him of violating 17-year-old Martin's civil rights.
The NAACP has called on the Justice Department to file civil rights charges, and is asking the public to sign a petition.

The Justice Department did not respond directly to the NAACP demand. It has a separate federal investigation going on.

[AWvsCBsteeeerike3]

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

[AWvsCBsteeeerike3]

It's interesting to note that in over half the states in the country he wouldn't have even been allowed to plead self defense in the circumstances of this case. Only 15-20 states allow you to use deadly force in a public space without any duty to retreat

You think? Personally, I'd blame racism. Or bad prosecutors. Maybe bad police work.