The Guvmint Shutdown

[MrSaigon]

How far apart are they? The only things I've read about in the house bill are losing the device tax and cutting some fed politician benefits. I'm sure TARP isn't a perfect comparison, but $30b wasn't anything to blink at a few years ago. Call China. What's skipping ahead a couple weeks on the National Debt Clock anyway? Do it and let people go back to work and to Mt. Rushmore.

Also, were the food giants leaned on at all for the ACA? If the medical device industry has to pony up 2.5% and other industries made concessions, did Kraft and General Mills at least have to sweat a little bit?

[Arthur Dent]

The House Republicans have never offered to fund the government in exchange for only the repeal of the medical device tax. At minimum they demand a one year delay in central functions of the ACA and at maximum they've demanded the entire Republican platform in exchange only for not forcing a shutdown. There is no way the Senate or the President will accept a repeal of this tax, when no policy concessions are being offered in exchange, since the Republicans will simply force another crisis to press additional demands (while offering nothing) as they have already repeatedly done.

[MrSaigon]

I forgot about the year delay. I had read that.

[stlouie_lipp]

I'm pretty sure whether you go towards the fringe on the left or right, you end up in the same place.

That's exactly the way it was taught to us in college Poli Sci. More like a horseshoe than a line spectrum.

What exactly is the relevance of this comment to the topic other than as an attempt to inject some mindless "both sides" rhetoric into a situation that's a dramatic illustration of how damaging that thinking is?

And someone accused jim of getting a free pass around here? Whatever happened to not attacking the poster? Is it because it is couched in some sort of internet "intellectualism" instead of just having the balls to say "[expletive] you" to the OP?

[ghostrunner]

Yeah. Fat was responding specifically to TFG's comment. I don't think it's appropriate to second guess people's motivations. Just state why you think the premise is incorrect or harmful.

[IMADreamer]

I'm pretty sure whether you go towards the fringe on the left or right, you end up in the same place.

That's exactly the way it was taught to us in college Poli Sci. More like a horseshoe than a line spectrum.

What exactly is the relevance of this comment to the topic other than as an attempt to inject some mindless "both sides" rhetoric into a situation that's a dramatic illustration of how damaging that thinking is?

And someone accused jim of getting a free pass around here? Whatever happened to not attacking the poster? Is it because it is couched in some sort of internet "intellectualism" instead of just having the balls to say "[expletive] you" to the OP?

To be fair every time I've told someone "[expletive] you" on here the mods are pretty quick to remind me what a dick I am and I have to take it down. Which is how it should be btw. So I don't think these guys are supposed to say that.

[Arthur Dent]

I was responding to both comments which were in turn posted in response to pioneer98's rather relevant observation that House Republicans take this position because they are pressured by primary challenges from the right. There is absolutely nothing similar happening on the left, so I objected to the knee jerk "both sides" framing that is reflexively applied, even when, as here, it has no relation to what is actually happening. Rereading and rethinking my post, I still see absolutely no personal attack.

[ghostrunner]

I'm pretty sure whether you go towards the fringe on the left or right, you end up in the same place.

That's exactly the way it was taught to us in college Poli Sci. More like a horseshoe than a line spectrum.

What exactly is the relevance of this comment to the topic other than as an attempt to inject some mindless "both sides" rhetoric into a situation that's a dramatic illustration of how damaging that thinking is?

And someone accused jim of getting a free pass around here? Whatever happened to not attacking the poster? Is it because it is couched in some sort of internet "intellectualism" instead of just having the balls to say "[expletive] you" to the OP?

Thanks for bringing this up, because I wanted to mention it a while back -

If anyone says [expletive] You to anyone in here (and not that you're advocating this - i hope), they're on a short leash to the extent I have anything to say about it. That doesn't take any balls whatsoever, just a lack of consideration for other members and the mods.

In general (and speaking for no other mods than myself), understand that if I see anything like a personal attack I spend a good few minutes in paralysis asking myself "should I do something here?"..."Am I over-reacting, am I under-reacting, is this person just widely recognized as a doofus and I should just let it go?" These are many more minutes than I should reasonably spend, but I can't help it. I don't spend the time here I used to, nor do I read everything. But if I do see something, I'm probably sweating it. There are times where I just hem and haw about it and run out of time to do anything about it.

[expletive] You, though, is not ambiguous. Honestly, if it was up to me, that's a bannable offense. I'm not the only vote though. Point being, please don't ever do it.

[Arthur Dent]

If I could redeem myself a bit here, the reason I didn't say, "[expletive] you" is because that's not what I meant. I am seriously annoyed by much "both sides" rhetoric because I think it usually relies at ignoring detail in what is really happening in favor of automatically assigning equality to opposing positions. In this case, opposing positions are qualitatively and enormously different. And in the case of "fringe" (not the word I'd choose) primary pressure, there is just no symmetry at all. But I would genuinely be interested in hearing a good argument for why it's all equal bipolarization here. That's not shouting insults.

[cardsfansince82]

Speaking of "[expletive] you"

http://bit.ly/19UafaW