The Guvmint Shutdown

[Leroy]

Where did the founders imply anything like this?

1 pass law
2 decide portions of law be delayed while still calling it the law of the land
3 presidential tweaks to law with no congressional approval

It comes off a lot like only giving 2 craps about the founders when they bolster your opinion otherwise you consider them an outdated bunch of white fogies.

[IMADreamer]

So here's my question to you guys. How does this get fixed and I don't mean the govt shut down. I mean how to we keep the inmates from running the asylum? For the life of me, other than a big civil war which I can't see happening and if does I'm outta this place as fast as my car will go, I don't see how the two sides put away their differences. I think the Tea Party was an opening of Pandora's box, now the crazy is out and it isn't going to get put back in even if the Tea Party kind of goes away those people and candidates are out there. Not to mention they and the voters who voted them in think their behavior is perfectly ok. They have BIG money backing them and they have gerrymandered districts in a way that they are unbeatable. So how does our completely broken system of govt get fixed?

[Socnorb11]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't the liberals already compromised on universal health care? Don't they really prefer a single-payer plan, but "settled" for what we've got?

I belive you are not correct. They, the left, insisted that this is what we got. Republicans had no say in it as they had no control of the House, the Senate or the Presidency.

Who were liberals compromising with to settle at this system? Democrats that didn't want the single payer system.

Maybe you can disassociate democrats and liberals and say that the liberals did in fact compromise with the democrats, but to suggest or imply that the republicans are the reason it's not a single payer system is wrong. I don't know if you were doing that, but the left was in total control when this legislation was passed. If the right had even one of the house, senate or white house, the ACA wouldn't have been passed in the first place.

This came off as snarky so I'll edit it.

I don't think the Democrats ever "expected" to have control of the House and Senate, to be honest............ so no single-payer bill was ever written and proposed. They proposed something that they thought they had a chance at passing, rather than something that the majority of Democrats want.

I don't quite follow. The left surely should have been expecting the route that took place in the 2008 elections. And, I may be misremembering, but I thought they at least talked about a single payer system, how far it advanced, I don't know. But, the notion of it was killed by guys like Mike Ross and those in his 'coalition'. It took a long time to get the ACA passed, surely they had time to mold the legislation in any way they wanted.

Regardless, the initial point remains that any compromise was within the democratic party and not across the aisle, iirc.

There was a VERY small window when Democrats actually had the necessary votes:


■From July 7. 2009 (when Al Franken was officially seated as the Senator from Minnesota after the last of Norm Coleman’s challenges came to an end) to August 25, 2009 (when Ted Kennedy died, although Kennedy’s illness had kept him from voting for several weeks before that date at least); and
■From September 25, 2009 (when Paul Kirk was appointed to replace Kennedy) to February 4, 2010 (when Scott Brown took office after defeating Martha Coakley);
■For one day in September 2009, Republicans lacked 40 votes due to the resignation of Mel Martinez, who was replaced the next day by George LeMieux
So, to the extent there was a filibuster proof majority in the Senate it lasted during two brief periods which lasted for a total of just over five months when counted altogether (and Congress was in its traditional summer recess for most of the July-August 2009 time frame).



Again, I'm not going to say that 100% of Democrats would be on board with single-payer, but Obamacare is the compromise that most of them were willing to make.

[Cronos]

The whole thing just amuses me more than anything else.

At least now people are much more aware of how broken the system is.

[TimeForGuinness]

Sorry to cause any confusion with my "drive-by" statement, it was not meant to take any of the bite out of the idiocracy that is currently plaguing our government. I meant to go back and edit my statement, but it seems like it took on a life of it's own. I'll edit it here:

"I'm pretty sure whether you go towards the fringe on the left or right, you end up in the same place. Crazytown."

Lately, it's been the far right that has stalled a lot of progress not only within the GOP but in the country...but they are organized, and the moderate Republicans see the Tea Party as "the enemy of my enemy is my friend", and it's killing any sort of forward momentum in the country, even if it's the will of the people. Sure both the Dems and GOP have always hated each other, but at least they could horse-trade behind closed doors...but not this group...and their style of governing (my way or the highway) is atrocious and very public...and the media loves it.

I guess my statement was more off topic, representative of the bigger picture and not really relevant to ACA, and I apologize. I guess it's my opinion that the only reason the far left doesn't act in a similar fashion is that it would be easier to herd cats than to organize Democrats in a similar fashion to the Tea Party...the craziness is there, but they haven't been able to organize and shutdown the government. Once again, just my opinion...

But make no mistake, this is much bigger than ACA...there is a lot of horse-trading going on right now, and there will be a compromise, and ACA will stay in place as it currently stands (my opinion). This is a power play, a money play, and they're using ACA as the talking point.

My two pennies.

[Socnorb11]

That's a great post, TFG. However, I disagree that there will be a compromise......... at least not anytime soon.

Honestly, I don't think this is so much a power play against the ACA. Moreso, I think it's the ultimate end game for the GOP/Teabaggers. They ultimately want less government, and this is a way of advancing that cause, all in the name of what they've convinced their "followers" is a worthy cause. There's really no reason at all for them to budge on this issue. "Let it burn", as far as they're concerned.

Meanwhile, if the Democrats cave, even a little bit, then the Teabaggers will have basically taken over the country.

[TimeForGuinness]

That's a great post, TFG. However, I disagree that there will be a compromise......... at least not anytime soon.

Honestly, I don't think this is so much a power play against the ACA. Moreso, I think it's the ultimate end game for the GOP/Teabaggers. They ultimately want less government, and this is a way of advancing that cause, all in the name of what they've convinced their "followers" is a worthy cause. There's really no reason at all for them to budge on this issue. "Let it burn", as far as they're concerned.

Meanwhile, if the Democrats cave, even a little bit, then the Teabaggers will have basically taken over the country.

IMHO -- 2 weeks, 3 weeks tops until there is a compromise. The Teabaggers want the status quo like everyone else, they just want something for it...so they can get reelected...get their name out there for 2014/2016.

[Socnorb11]

Why do you believe they want the status quo, TFG? That's certainly not their battle cry.

[TimeForGuinness]

Why do you believe they want the status quo, TFG? That's certainly not their battle cry.

Because there's too much money wrapped up in the status quo...you think all that money out there is going to allow the Tea Party to take it down? Doubtful. This is just politics.

A basic agreement gets done in the next 2 weeks which will reopen the govt...and they'll kick the can down the road a few months to work out a budget. Expect this to happen again around Christmas. Wheeee!

[heyzeus]

Why do we elect people to run the federal government who are openly hostile to the idea of federal government? It just makes no sense. I guess this idea is patterned after the Texas School Board, where we routinely elect people who believe public school is communism and should be disbanded. The results are equally promising.