Michael Sam - NFL's first openly gay prospect

[Schlich]

If evangelical christians werent so bigoted and harmful then maybe they'd earn the right to not be "discriminated" against.

[cardsfansince82]

Tony Dungy says it is the coach's job to put the best team on the field possible. Tony Dungy says Michael Sam is a good football player. Tony Dungy says a gay player would not be ostracized by teammates. Tony Dungy claims to be welcoming of people of all backgrounds. Tony Dungy says he would not draft Michael Sam.

...because it would be a distraction. Criticize him all you want because it is deserved, but at least don't lose sight of what he actually said.

Define distractions.

Here are lots of different definitions:

https://www.google.com/search?as_q=Mich ... gws_rd=ssl

Thanks for adding nothing to the discussion.

[Jocephus]

Published on May 21, 2013

Tony Dungy encourages Tim Tebow to be patient and wait on the Lord as he waits to sign for a team.

[Schlich]

"Sins he can tolerate and sins he cannot tolerate". You "think" he weighs sins differently? Interesting. Maybe the Bible that you used to read differentiated, but I'm pretty sure that mine and Tony Dungy's don't.

what the hell is this supposed to mean? Is this that "all sins are equal" theological BS that evangelicals love to throw out and equate gay people with murderers?

[thrill]

Maybe you're the one that's discriminating here.

For a moderator to discriminate against Christians, that moderator would have to ban you without valid reason, just because of your beliefs.
What you are experiencing here is criticism. That is not discrimination.
What Tony Dungy said re: not wanting to draft Michael Sam is not discrimination.
What Tony Dungy believes re: gay marriage is discriminatory. For a lot of people in a lot of time periods, that kind of discrimination was believed to be ok because of societal norms. That is no longer the case for most Americans.

[KyCardinalFan]

Wow. I can't decide which post to quote, since I'm late to the party. I think Trill commented that no one is in broncos's corner, which should tell him something. I'm in his corner even though sometimes I didn't follow his argument!

This is a media-driven [expletive] storm. Read his quote, verbatim, without your biases and agendas on Michael Sam.

Dungy made these comments weeks ago when the Oprah reality show was still in the works. The writer of the article said they were discussing other issues and he threw this question in, an off the cuff remark. At that time, Sam was still in a national media spotlight.

Dungy said he was talking in a football context; basically he would put up with Vick or Tebow and the media firestorm they each created because they were first round picks. Their talent was worth the media distraction. Sam is a 7th round pick. He didn't do well at the combine or pro day (as stated by Jeff Fischer, later on the same DP Show) He certainly appears to be an on the bubble player, who still could get cut. Do GMs or owners want that type of media distraction for a 7th rounder as they do for someone like Manziel? Seemingly not, since so many obviously passed. Did they ALL pass because they're homophobic? Not likely, but since Dungy said he would pass, then he obviously must be homophobic?!

Trill is being extremely selective in the DP Show clip. From the 3:00 mark, up until the question that Trill states is proof, at the 4:48 mark - nearly 2 minutes - Dungy talks about how his job as COACH is to put the best product on the field. Off the field issues are a factor, but not the only deciding factor. So the GMs and owners were making a football decision at the draft, but when Dungy is asked as an analyst what he would do as a coach then he is a hateful, homophobic.

The same DP interview, at the 10:47 mark:
Dan Patrick: What was the criticism that hurt the most?
Dungy: I think that, uh... being a Christian, that I'm somehow hateful of gay people or because I believe certain things about marriage that that makes me anti-gay or anti-anybody and, uh... I guess that goes with the territory, but that is certainly not what my faith is all about.

That last bolded part speaks specifically to the question Trill selected, and what broncos was trying to explain. In THIS controversy, his faith is going to come up, but is not what this is about.

[Socnorb11]

Here it is in a nutshell for me, just so we're clear:

I am not defending Tony Dungy's position on gay marriage. Not my monkey, not my circus. We've had lengthy (and I think productive) discussions with regard to that on this forum. I personally don't think this is the thread for that......... but I don't get to make that call.

I don't believe that Dungy's comments were motivated by his faith. I think he was speaking from a football perspective, and only a football perspective. Maybe we'll never agree on that. Fine.


I wish Michael Sam nothing but the best. Seriously......... I hope he makes it.

[Jocephus]

Dungy's gay-marriage comments draw support, criticism
Updated: March 22, 2007, 6:33 PM ET

Dungy caused a stir Tuesday when he accepted the "Friend of Family" award from the conservative Indiana Family Institute.

The coach told the audience he supported the group's efforts to amend the Indiana constitution to define marriage as between one man and one woman.

"I appreciate the stance they're taking, and I embrace that stance," Dungy told the crowd of about 700 people.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?id=2808705

[jim]

If evangelical christians werent so bigoted and harmful then maybe they'd earn the right to not be "discriminated" against.

I agree with you. I don't trust the motives of Dungy's comments because of his religious background. But I am putting myself into a coaches position, I would evaluate every player and determine what kind of non-football stuff they bring to the team and how that would impact it.

[thrill]

I've never said hateful. Bigoted. Yes. That's a loaded word, so people react defensively to it. Doesn't change that being against marriage equality is a bigoted belief. Logically, by wanting to deprive someone of something they are entitled to - equal protection and rights under the law, you are being bigoted and discriminatory.

To me, Dungy's comments about Michael Sam are just the next in a long line of evidence that Dungy believes in discrimination against homosexuals based on his religious beliefs.

There has yet to be anyone who can refute that without telling me I'm just supposed to be ok with those beliefs because he's entitled to his opinions. Of course he is, but they are discriminatory opinions. You can't have your cake and eat it too. You have to stand by your beliefs and take the criticism or you have to abandon or hide your beliefs.

The comments themselves are almost secondary. I long ago admitted that Dungy fell into the media's trap and they are driving this [expletive] storm. HOWEVER, they are his beliefs and whether or not the media has generated this attention, or maybe a better word would be "distraction," they are his opinions and he is accountable for them. Just as I am for mine and you are for yours. If you are against gay marriage, you are entitled to that belief. Just know you are against the civil rights of millions of Americans and live with that.

If evangelical christians werent so bigoted and harmful then maybe they'd earn the right to not be "discriminated" against.

I agree with you. I don't trust the motives of Dungy's comments because of his religious background. But I am putting myself into a coaches position, I would evaluate every player and determine what kind of non-football stuff they bring to the team and how that would impact it.

As a sports fan, I would want the coach of my team to do the same. No problem with it.

Here it is in a nutshell for me, just so we're clear:

I am not defending Tony Dungy's position on gay marriage. Not my monkey, not my circus. We've had lengthy (and I think productive) discussions with regard to that on this forum. I personally don't think this is the thread for that......... but I don't get to make that call.

I don't believe that Dungy's comments were motivated by his faith. I think he was speaking from a football perspective, and only a football perspective. Maybe we'll never agree on that. Fine.


I wish Michael Sam nothing but the best. Seriously......... I hope he makes it.

I understand you better now. I guess my whole problem is to this:

I don't believe that Dungy's comments were motivated by his faith. I think he was speaking from a football perspective, and only a football perspective.

It's impossible for his faith to not play a role in every opinion he holds or decision he makes if it is as important to him as he claims it is. Therefore, even if he's trying to be objective, it's impossible.

Despite all of this, as a grown adult who understands nuance and that the world isn't black and white, I'm sure Tony Dungy is a great person. He's probably kind and generous 99% of the time. That doesn't get him off the hook on this issue.