Rant/Rave: Bourbon

[AWvsCBsteeeerike3]

Just kidding, mostly. I don't expect you to hold my hand. I will say, though, that I do appreciate the information. I started reading about grain bills and was surpised at the makeup of OF/Woodford (as well as Knob Creek). I really like the Old Forester I've been drinking. I put a rocks glass in the freezer for a couple minutes, put an ice cube in there, and pour a glass. Let it sit for a few minutes then sip on it.

Conversely, I find Knob Creek tough to drink now that I am trying to sip this stuff and pay attention. Way too rough. I'm not man enough for it. Anyway, I was surprised to see how much more rye (which I associated with spice/roughness) OF has than Knob. I guess it's the aging that gives Knob its ability to make me cry.

[TimeForGuinness]

I bought some Buffalo Trace for the playoffs. It is, in fact, delicious.

I find it doesn't last long in my house...I actually need to get another bottle.

...if you can get on the list, buy a bottle of George T. Stagg (Buffalo Trace Distillery's next tier up, but below Pappy's), I recommend it. Somehow I scored a 2002 (their first year) at a church auction, and it's my "special occasion" bourbon whiskey. It's smooth going down but has this afterburn that is reminiscent of a Bruce Willis scream.

[TimeForGuinness]

There are a lot of distilleries in the area.
-CH, in the West Loop (parking sucks, the people are GREAT, they have a fun bar--gin, vodka, and a really good amaro)
-Chicago Distilling in Logan Square (easy parking, the people are GREAT, they have a fun bar--gin, vodka, white whiskey, and my friend Steve who runs the bar at Naha and Brindille and who is an absinthe freak is working on an absinthe with them)
-Journeyman in Three Oaks, MI (1:20 from Chicago, gorgeous tasting room, near the lake, they make everything--vodka, gin, bourbon, rye, wheat whiskey, a jalapeno spirit, lots of stuff)
-Koval (higher end, GREAT people--bourbon, rye, lots of brandy, they are releasing a gin imminently)
-Rhine Hal (brandy and Grappa, West Loop, GREAT people, a huge adorable Great Dane named Atlas)
-FEW (Evanston, they make everything, GREAT people, really solid product across the board)
-North Shore (Lake Bluff, good product, don't know the people very well yet)
They all have tours. They're all doing 100% craft work from grain to bottle except the minor exception of CH, who puts out a bourbon that they buy from a contract distiller, and which they're honest about and label as not their own. Everything else CH does is theirs, and they are aging their own bourbon now, including a couple big barrels I spied down there this summer that Steph at Girl and Goat gave them to age her own bourbon.

I'll drink anything straight out of curiosity, but I'm a grain bill nerd. I'm into if the whiskey is 51% corn (the min for bourbon) or 60% corn or 80%+ corn (like JR Ewing, an almost offensively sweet and disgusting bourbon to my palette but something that might get a non-bourbon drinker into bourbon), or if it's 51% rye (the min for rye) or 60 rye/30 wheat/10 corn or 70 rye/20c corn/10 other. I'll drink a single whiskey at ~120 proof, but would never have a second. I'll follow that with a PBR or a glass of water to slow my down and get my palette back. My sippin' whiskeys, the stuff I have at home, are in the 80-90 range as a rule. When it gets at/over 100 it's a bit hot for my taste, though I know people like their stuff proofed up. I was at the Indie Spirits Expo at the Hilton on Tuesday night and my pal Eric from Wirtz and I were bopping around trying out stuff we hadn't had before, and we came across Dryfly, who is moving to Wirtz in IL and we wanted to try them out. They make a wheat whiskey (100% Washington wheat) that is....well, holy cow, it's friggin delicious, smooth, enjoyable, you can taste the grain and a little bit of baking spice that isn't overtaken by a long time in the barrel. It's nice. They could maybe leave it in the barrel for another several moths to round it out, but it's really smooth and really enjoyable. You could probably have four and not realize you're on the fourth. Man. Good. Really, I'm nitpicking to say it could use a few more moths. They also have a barrel-strength of the same that's like 117 proof if I recall correctly and it just kills your mouth. Destroys it. As a curiosity, fun. As something I'd sip on, no thanks.

The difference between the two is cutting with water to bring the proof down. The wheat whiskey that is 80 proof has been cut with water to get it down to 80. The barrel-strength has not, and it remains high. It's the same stuff, but one is watered down. That might seem odd. My booze is watered down? Yeah. Your typical booze that's 40% alcohol is watered down before it's bottled and shipped out in most cases. And that's what you're getting out of water or ice, is an at-home cutting of the booze. The water brings down the heat of the alcohol and at the same time can make some of the flavors more present on your palette. So by adding a "splash"--which I think of as literally tipping a bottle of water so a "splash" of water hits the glass, just a tiny amount--you can achieve that. I wouldn't really bother with a whiskey under 100 proof. You can just drink that. Though for some the heat of even 80 proof is too high. But if I'm having something over 100, anything barrel-strength, just as a sipper then I'm generally putting a cube in so that as it melts and dilutes I can taste the differences in the flavor as it dilutes and softens. I'm then just doing at home what a distiller does when he cuts his 100-proof whiskey down to 80 for the bottle. Sometimes it's better, sometimes it's not.

That's why overproof is better for cocktails. When your bartender, or you at home, are shaking or stirring a drink you are accomplishing two objectives. First, get the drink cold--a cocktail should be finished cold, before it gets to room temp, and then you should order another. Second, to dilute the drink. Your cocktail is like 40% water depending on the length of the shake/stir. That isn't blasphemy--water adds balance. Water MAKES a well-balanced cocktail.

If you like bourbon in the 90-92 range neat, with no water or ice, then I would suggest not going under that proof as you're exploring other options. I think I've mentioned Benchmark in this thread. It's the same mash as Buffalo, but aged only 8 years instead of 12. So if we do the math.....Same stuff. Booze evaporates as it ages. Benchmark ages 8 years, Buffalo 12....so how can Benchmark be only 80 proof and Buffalo is 90? Water. Benchmark is cut. I'd guess Benchmark isn't for you if what you respond to is the proof in a 90-94 bourbon. Benchmark is probably too soft for you. I might try one, were I you, and at like $11/750mL retail it's not a big investment, to make sure that's not your sweet spot, but I'd bet it's not your thing. I would, however, recommend reaching up to an overproof bourbon that's 100+ and adding a splash. For you guys who like Buffalo and add a rock or a splash, you may well find that saving like 60% and doing the 80 proof Benchmark neat accomplishes what you were doing with Buffalo + a splash. If I were your bartender and you had a neat Buffalo and asked me for a recommendation I might talk you into a George T. Stagg with a splash just to watch your mind get blown when you sip it and go "Holy [expletive] goddamn [expletive] this is amazing."

Rock, BTW, less desirable than a splash. Consider your wine, which opens up as it breathes. It's also getting to room temp. When we taste beer we cup the glass and swirl to warm it a bit and release flavor/aroma. The rock chills the booze to the point often that it dulls some of the desirable flavors in your whiskey. Warmth releases, chilling kills some flavors.

The cool thing, though, if you find that you're more into mash than you are into heat/proof, is that many whiskeys come out of the same distilleries and rick houses. The Sazerac/Stagg distillery puts out soooooo many things: Buffalo, Benchmark, all the Pappy, WL Weller, George T. Stagg (a very notable high-proof), and a bunch more. It's fun to explore all of them to see the variations from one distillery under different cuts, agings, etc.

If you want to really take a badass distillery tour, do the six-hour drive south from the western burbs to the bourbon trail outside Louisville. Go to Stagg. They have different tours that start at different times of the day covering various aspects of their operation. Taking all their tours in a day is a good way to see how the tradition and craft and art and science of the whole thing has been carried on down there for generations. It's truly fascinating.

...just wanted to say thanks for this, I skimmed it, but will re-read later.

[TimeForGuinness]

I am honestly hesitant to post about it in this forum.

Also this.

I've spent a decade of time and money on cocktails and spirits, but would rather not even talk about it here.

Actually, I'm quite interested

[AWvsCBsteeeerike3]

I am honestly hesitant to post about it in this forum.

Also this.

I've spent a decade of time and money on cocktails and spirits, but would rather not even talk about it here.

Actually, I'm quite interested

Pray tell, I agree.

[jim]

I bought some Buffalo Trace for the playoffs. It is, in fact, delicious.

I find it doesn't last long in my house...I actually need to get another bottle.

...if you can get on the list, buy a bottle of George T. Stagg (Buffalo Trace Distillery's next tier up, but below Pappy's), I recommend it. Somehow I scored a 2002 (their first year) at a church auction, and it's my "special occasion" bourbon whiskey. It's smooth going down but has this afterburn that is reminiscent of a Bruce Willis scream.

If you come by my house you can have what is left of mine - which after Saturday isn't that much - because I've lost my taste for the stuff. I lost the entire day yesterday. Just gone. The only good thing I can say is that at least it didn't turn out to be the stroke I thought I was having Saturday night.

[AWvsCBsteeeerike3]

If you come by my house you can have what is left of mine - which after Saturday isn't that much - because I've lost my taste for the stuff. I lost the entire day yesterday. Just gone. The only good thing I can say is that at least it didn't turn out to be the stroke I thought I was having Saturday night.

If you weren't such a nancy, you'd have ran 4 miles in the morning, seemingly all uphill, to sweat that stuff out and go about your business.

[33anda3rd]

Just kidding, mostly. I don't expect you to hold my hand. I will say, though, that I do appreciate the information. I started reading about grain bills and was surpised at the makeup of OF/Woodford (as well as Knob Creek). I really like the Old Forester I've been drinking. I put a rocks glass in the freezer for a couple minutes, put an ice cube in there, and pour a glass. Let it sit for a few minutes then sip on it.

Conversely, I find Knob Creek tough to drink now that I am trying to sip this stuff and pay attention. Way too rough. I'm not man enough for it. Anyway, I was surprised to see how much more rye (which I associated with spice/roughness) OF has than Knob. I guess it's the aging that gives Knob its ability to make me cry.

Knob is like 9 years aged and comes to you at 100 proof.

Forester makes no age statement on the bottle. There's Classic at 86- and Signature at 100-proof*, and they're both from the same mash bill. They're both called "straight" bourbon so they have to have been aged at least 2 years. Neither is a complex, vanilla-y, oak-y, caramel-y, brown sugar-y bourbon. To my taste they're driven more by spice (from the rye), wood-char, little bit of leather. So I know they're over the 2-year minimum for "straight" but they're both almost certainly under 5 years.

The OF's should be less rough than the Knob. Alcohol evaporates in the barrel, and water is added to cut to bottle strength. If Knob ages 9 years but the OF's are about 4-5 Knob is going to evaporate more and have less water added to the cut, while the OF's--esp. the Classic--is going to be cut quite a bit vs. the Knob to make up for less evaporation and a 14% lower proof in the bottle.

*If you ever wonder "why is liquor like that?" in the US the answer is usually "Prohibition." Why do we have proofs? Prohibition. Why are most spirits at 80? Post-prohibition demands for moderation. Why do we have a three-tier system for distribution dictated by law? Post-prohibition concerns for moderation and regulation. So weird.

[TimeForGuinness]

If you come by my house you can have what is left of mine - which after Saturday isn't that much - because I've lost my taste for the stuff. I lost the entire day yesterday. Just gone. The only good thing I can say is that at least it didn't turn out to be the stroke I thought I was having Saturday night.

If you weren't such a nancy, you'd have ran 4 miles in the morning, seemingly all uphill, to sweat that stuff out and go about your business.

It's like you know me...

...and you'll find out pretty quick that you can't drink bourbon like beer...well you can, but you'll wish you hadn't.

[jim]

I overdo everything. I did the same damn thing with Tequilla one night. Bought a nice $40 bottle, was watching that Astronomy show on Fox with the French black guy, and got wasted on accident. Finally finished the bottle off 6 months later pouring it into tall glass of iced Squirt and selling it to my wife as an authentic Mexican Margarita (which it actually is, Mexicans don't do all of this crazy [expletive] with it, they just pour it into some Squirt).