fanforever wrote:He still has poor bullpen management regardless of the record. And no one is asking for him to be fired...show me one person here who wants him fired...
Mad Reamer is one.
IMADreamer wrote:I'd be fine if Matheny wasn't our manager next year.
Why is it so unreasonable to think that Matheny should have pulled Rosenthal at the first sign that he just didnt have it?
who the [expletive] cares about our record in these types of games. Rosie obviously just didn't have it today so get him out of there ASAP especially when were in a [expletive] pennant race.
We're talking about a guy with an ERA of 1.60 (240 ERA+) with 300 Ks in 230 major league innings. He should never pull him because it will always be an inferior player. And if you think you can tell when he has it or doesn't, you can't. Rosenthal always allows a (seemingly) disproportional amount of baserunners and someone says to get him out of there every outing.
I missed the 9th. Thankfully. So I have questions.
How quickly did this all happen? It's not like you start the 9th with a guy warming up. Rosenthal has been one of the best in the league this year. Do you get someone up with the first baserunner? (I don't.) The second? (I still don't.) There isn't a better option at all.
You do need him to work through some of these. Yesterday clearly wasn't an ideal time, but he can and has gotten out of jams before, and they will need him to again.
Again, I didn't see the game, but sometimes you just lose. Closers are going to fail from time to time. I think everyone expects a closer to get a 1-2-3 inning every outing. The greatest pitchers in baseball could have never accomplished that, and the closer is usually not a great pitcher anyway.
haltz wrote:We're talking about a guy with an ERA of 1.60 (240 ERA+) with 300 Ks in 230 major league innings. He should never pull him because it will always be an inferior player. And if you think you can tell when he has it or doesn't, you can't. Rosenthal always allows a (seemingly) disproportional amount of baserunners and someone says to get him out of there every outing.
BW23 wrote:How quickly did this all happen? It's not like you start the 9th with a guy warming up. Rosenthal has been one of the best in the league this year. Do you get someone up with the first baserunner? (I don't.) The second? (I still don't.) There isn't a better option at all.
Right. You live or die with one of the best in the game. What if he took out Rosenthal for some dip [expletive] like Seth Maness with the bases chucked and he gives up a grand slam. That might actually be fireable.
Rosenthal was unlucky against the first batter. Then he beaned a guy in the head. The very next pitch was a 58 foot fastball to Lucroy. Two pitches later, an actual wild pitch moved up the runners to 2nd and 3rd. Then he finally walked Lucroy. Now with the bases loaded he's in a spot where he must throw strikes. I had no confidence he'd throw strikes after that sequence of events. That's why I'd have pulled him.
It doesn't seem like it would have changed the outcome but I wouldn't call it firable if Matheny had pulled him after that sequence.
jagtrader wrote:Back to bullpen management: Cardinals are third in bullpen ERA at 2.77, are 75-4 when leading after eight and 86-1 when leading after nine. And this team doesn't have great relievers outside of Rosenthal and Siegrist. You'd think having a tactically inept manager would show up in the numbers somewhere.
Nicely said.
Managing a bullpen is a lot like calling plays in the NFL, in that they are both entirely too easy to find a scapegoat for. Every team is overflowing with fans who are convinced that their [offensive coordinator/manager] is the worst in the league at [calling plays/managing a bullpen].
