Who Should We Hire?

[dmarx114]

I missed the 9th. Thankfully. So I have questions.

How quickly did this all happen? It's not like you start the 9th with a guy warming up. Rosenthal has been one of the best in the league this year. Do you get someone up with the first baserunner? (I don't.) The second? (I still don't.) There isn't a better option at all.

You do need him to work through some of these. Yesterday clearly wasn't an ideal time, but he can and has gotten out of jams before, and they will need him to again.

Again, I didn't see the game, but sometimes you just lose. Closers are going to fail from time to time. I think everyone expects a closer to get a 1-2-3 inning every outing. The greatest pitchers in baseball could have never accomplished that, and the closer is usually not a great pitcher anyway.

All fair questions from someone who didn't see the game.

First hitter singled. No big deal.

2nd batter was hit in the head with a change up. There's a little cause for concern since the Cards had a 2 run lead and that's pretty much the last thing a pitcher wants to do. I would have had a guy loosening at that point.

The first pitch to the next hitter was a fastball that was 5 feet short of home plate that probably should have been a wild pitch. It's at this point a manager needs to get someone in his pen ready in a hurry since Rosey was all over the place. Matheny went out to talk to Rosey to try and calm him down, which was smart. Matheny clearly saw Rosey was fighting himself since it's highly unusual for a pitcher to throw a fastball 55 feet.

The 2-1 pitch to Lucroy was another fastball in the dirt that missed by a mile and went to the backstop, which allowed the runners to advance. So that's 3 of the last 5 pitches that you see at little league games. Lucroy walked on the next pitch and the bases were loaded.

This is where Rosey needed to be taken out. And there was plenty of time to do so.

[33anda3rd]

Sometimes when I'm ranting in my head about Matheny and RP use I have a hard time remedying process and result. The last game of the weekend series vs the Cubs recently, the one we won, there was a point in the 8th that it looked hairy.
Entered the inning up 4-2.
Siegrist gives up a single to Coghlan.
Siegrist walks Rizzo.
Up 4-2, runners on first/second. Kris Bryant is coming up.
Enter Broxton, who as a Cardinals RP up to that point had a 2:1 K:BB ratio and 2HR allowed in just 19IP.
Now my brain reels. Why not Rosenthal? There will not be a point of greater importance in the rest of this game. Why not Rosenthal?
Broxton walks Bryant.
Broxton walks LaStella, walking in the run that makes it a 1-run game.
Here comes a visit to the mound.
We will get Rosenthal now, right?
In comes Maness.
Maness gets Russell to fly out to right and Rizzo gets caught at home trying to tag and score the tying run.
We were an outfield assist away from a tie game in a pennant race.
Now, with two outs and the likelihood of a run being scored greatly reduced--ie a point of lesser import--Rosenthal enters.
Rosenthal strikes out Montero. End of inning/rally.

We won the game, 4-3. That's great. It all worked out. In our record for "when leading going into the 8th" that one gets chalked up as a W. But it's hard for me to not think that Matheny did a poor job managing the game at that vital point. What if Rizzo beats the throw home, or the throw is errant/late, or Molina can't get the tag down or any other thing that stops a OF->C out at the plate? If Rosenthal enters the game when Broxton entered the game, against the Cubs second best hitter who is also the 15th or so best hitter in baseball, that is the best time to use your best RP to shut down a rally that's just getting started, rather than wait until a run gets walked in and you get a rare double play on an outfield FB to bring down the leverage.

[rsmit84]

Also, anyone that ignores how valuable it is to control a clubhouse just read the Nationals comments about Matt Williams.

Please tell me you don't think that Matheny has lost control of the clubhouse. Please.

No. Complete opposite.

[rsmit84]

Cardinals need to hire someone who can recognize the precise moment one of the game's best relievers stops being a major league pitcher. The dividing line is very clear to the trained eye. If this person can do this by watching television, that'd be great. Another requirement for the new manager: He can NEVER stick with a player while he struggles. He MUST remove each one instantly. Because EVERYONE knows no player has ever made an adjustment during a poor performance. Most important: Nothing bad can EVER happen on this new manager's watch. He should know to prevent ALL bad things BEFORE they happen, preferably using 20/20 message board hindsight. It's a tricky job. Please apply within.

feel better?

you forgot....he must also have common sense during a pennant race

seriously let's build up a guys confidence on September 27....so what if we lose....

the Psychology supersedes everything....can't have him going to the nut house

Yep, if only the manager had common sense. Might have the best record while playing in the toughest division. Cards need to find that guy ASAP.

He still has poor bullpen management regardless of the record. And no one is asking for him to be fired...show me one person here who wants him fired...

I'd be fine if Matheny wasn't our manager next year.

They're not changing a manager that's gonna win 100 games.

I know but he is not a good manager. They win despite him.

[dmarx114]

Cardinals need to hire someone who can recognize the precise moment one of the game's best relievers stops being a major league pitcher. The dividing line is very clear to the trained eye. If this person can do this by watching television, that'd be great. Another requirement for the new manager: He can NEVER stick with a player while he struggles. He MUST remove each one instantly. Because EVERYONE knows no player has ever made an adjustment during a poor performance. Most important: Nothing bad can EVER happen on this new manager's watch. He should know to prevent ALL bad things BEFORE they happen, preferably using 20/20 message board hindsight. It's a tricky job. Please apply within.

feel better?

you forgot....he must also have common sense during a pennant race

seriously let's build up a guys confidence on September 27....so what if we lose....

the Psychology supersedes everything....can't have him going to the nut house

Yep, if only the manager had common sense. Might have the best record while playing in the toughest division. Cards need to find that guy ASAP.

He still has poor bullpen management regardless of the record. And no one is asking for him to be fired...show me one person here who wants him fired...

I'd be fine if Matheny wasn't our manager next year.

They're not changing a manager that's gonna win 100 games.

I know but he is not a good manager. They win despite him.

Show us 2, lol!

[Vidor]

I missed the 9th. Thankfully. So I have questions.

How quickly did this all happen? It's not like you start the 9th with a guy warming up. Rosenthal has been one of the best in the league this year. Do you get someone up with the first baserunner? (I don't.) The second? (I still don't.) There isn't a better option at all.

As I posted in the GDT, this entire sequence happened over fifteen pitches. The first guy singled. The second guy was beaned on the head on the 8th pitch of the inning, when the count was 2-2. I don't think there's a manager in this world that would have had a reliever up and warming before the HBP. The next guy walks, a sequence that included the wild pitch to advance the runners--IIRC it was at some point during this AB that Maness got up. Then the fourth batter gets up, the 15th pitch of the inning gets hit into the CF seats, and we are screwed. Then Maness enters the game and winds up giving up his own three-run bomb.

[jim]

I was driving back from St. Louis and was listening, pulled into the driveway right when Rosy hit the guy in the head. Listening/reading box score, I didn't even question MM's decision, but after reading this I figured I'd watch the inning to see for myself. I don't see where you could have done anything differently - the inning starts with a bloop hit, and then hits the guy with a changeup. You aren't going to pull a guy that been as good as Rosy at that point, and other than one pitch to the first two batters I'm not really alarmed with what I see. 97 instead of 99 - ok. But I've Rosy mow people down with that velocity.

He misses by a hair on a 1-0 to Lucroy that could completely change that AB around, and then he challenges a very good hitter with a fastball and Lucroy is late on it and fouls it off. That's Rosy - dick high middle of the plate and alot times good hitters still can't do anything with it. Then on 2-1 he throws his second bad pitch of the inning - which Cruz really could have handled - and now it's 3-1 to Lucroy with the tying run at 2nd. He walks him, and Seth is up. He grooves one and it's ballgame.

That's on Rosy.

@Chicago last Sunday - I was at that game and sweating bullets during the 8th. I was discussing strategy with my wife, and telling her that I had less confidence in Broxton than MM did, but that I trusted MM more than I trusted myself. Once Broxton walked 2 guys, my wife said "Now you have to bring in Rosy" - and I explained to her that there is no way you bring in Rosy at that point because there is very little chance to get out of this mess, and you don't want to burn Rosy in a situation where even Hoodini couldn't get you out. Seth was the right call, and we got the result we wanted from him even though it wasn't how Seth usually gets the DP's. After freaking out for a second about Heyward's throw to the plate, I told my wife "NOW we bring in Rosy".

[Leroy]

First blown save in MLB history, and that's on management.

[dmarx114]

I was driving back from St. Louis and was listening, pulled into the driveway right when Rosy hit the guy in the head. Listening/reading box score, I didn't even question MM's decision, but after reading this I figured I'd watch the inning to see for myself. I don't see where you could have done anything differently - the inning starts with a bloop hit, and then hits the guy with a changeup. You aren't going to pull a guy that been as good as Rosy at that point, and other than one pitch to the first two batters I'm not really alarmed with what I see. 97 instead of 99 - ok. But I've Rosy mow people down with that velocity.

He misses by a hair on a 1-0 to Lucroy that could completely change that AB around, and then he challenges a very good hitter with a fastball and Lucroy is late on it and fouls it off. That's Rosy - dick high middle of the plate and alot times good hitters still can't do anything with it. Then on 2-1 he throws his second bad pitch of the inning - which Cruz really could have handled - and now it's 3-1 to Lucroy with the tying run at 2nd. He walks him, and Seth is up. He grooves one and it's ballgame.

That's on Rosy.

@Chicago last Sunday - I was at that game and sweating bullets during the 8th. I was discussing strategy with my wife, and telling her that I had less confidence in Broxton than MM did, but that I trusted MM more than I trusted myself. Once Broxton walked 2 guys, my wife said "Now you have to bring in Rosy" - and I explained to her that there is no way you bring in Rosy at that point because there is very little chance to get out of this mess, and you don't want to burn Rosy in a situation where even Hoodini couldn't get you out. Seth was the right call, and we got the result we wanted from him even though it wasn't how Seth usually gets the DP's. After freaking out for a second about Heyward's throw to the plate, I told my wife "NOW we bring in Rosy".

Matheny should have gone to Rosey with the bases loaded in the 8th last week against the Cubs. It worked out, but that was the wrong call.

[pioneer98]

OK so Rosey has blown 2 recent saves with 9th inning HR's and has looked shaky in at bats he didn't allow a HR. Is this bad luck? How many more good/bad appearances will it take to find out? I don't know the answer. I guess all I'm saying is the leash should be extra short because a) the season is on the line and b) Rosey has been shaky lately. I don't want a repeat of what we saw right before the ASB.