2016 Election Thread (My God Kill Me Now)

[AWvsCBsteeeerike3]

What do you mean the country is moving to the left? Socially, yes. It sure seems the country has moved 'left' with the acceptance of the lgbt movement, pot legalization, etc. But, fiscally, corporations are making out like bandits at the expense of the middle class, which may not be a 'right' or 'left' thing as much as an intelligent strategy to buy lawmakers.

That said, it sure *seems* the economic landscape has shifted far to the right with the tax loopholes and a bunch of other stuff I'm not smart enough to dissect when it comes to how to handle fiscal issues at home. But, with the growing income/wealth gap, stagnant wages, corporations hoarding cash, far too low poverty level line, etc, it sure, again, seems that the right is winning that battle.

Bernie Sanders has a pretty strong track record and a clear cut understanding of those issues.

[Michael]

Another way of saying what I'm saying above is: Republicans don't ever have an internal debate about "Oh, is Ted Cruz too far to the right to get elected?" No. Their concerns are more like: "Is Trump too far to the left to get elected?" No one on that side ever worries that their guy will go too far and get stonewalled by Congress like we do on the left.

Again, I have to disagree. The Republican establishment backed Jeb! because he's moderate enough to appeal to the general electorate. Going in the this election cycle Republicans were looking to soften their stance on immigration, etc. Now they have two candidates they don't particularly care for and they're worried those candidates are going to hurt them in congressional races. The Republican party is a complete mess.

[Joe Shlabotnik]

What fight are we exactly having? Not even Democrats are getting behind Bernie on this one. I think single payer is the future and I'm glad Sanders is having the conversation, but it's poison in the general election.

And by Democrats, you mean Nancy Pelosi?

Yes, there has long been substantial disconnect between Democratic Party leaders like Pelosi and the Party base. Sanders' run challenges that grip, which is a fight worth having.

You aren't going to win on universal health care until there are a majority in both houses of congress to go along. This is why it is so important for the Sanders believers to be committed past this presidential cycle. If you REALLY want change, you're going to have to work long and hard at it.

[Schlich]

So the danger is the electorate becoming too far left of the Democratic Party establishment with majorities in the house and senate? What am I not supposed to like about that?

[Schlich]

What fight are we exactly having? Not even Democrats are getting behind Bernie on this one. I think single payer is the future and I'm glad Sanders is having the conversation, but it's poison in the general election.

And by Democrats, you mean Nancy Pelosi?

Yes, there has long been substantial disconnect between Democratic Party leaders like Pelosi and the Party base. Sanders' run challenges that grip, which is a fight worth having.

You aren't going to win on universal health care until there are a majority in both houses of congress to go along. This is why it is so important for the Sanders believers to be committed past this presidential cycle. If you REALLY want change, you're going to have to work long and hard at it.

Luckily we don't have to look back that far to see the error of our ways. The message is resonating with young people.

[Myles]

Playing devil's advocate to some extent here....

Republicans are going to call whoever the candidate is a radical, left wing liberal socialist who hates America. It's what they do. It doesn't matter if the candidate is actually a moderate centrist. Reality means nothing. So, if they are going to brand the candidate as a radical socialist regardless.....why not send the candidate up who may actually be as far to the left as they portray? Why let fear of what Republicans might do dictate the candidate on the Democratic side? We already know what Republicans will do. They will shamelessly slime whoever the candidate is. It doesn't matter.

.

You say that as if it is not the same on the other side.

[Michael]

What do you mean the country is moving to the left? Socially, yes. It sure seems the country has moved 'left' with the acceptance of the lgbt movement, pot legalization, etc. But, fiscally, corporations are making out like bandits at the expense of the middle class, which may not be a 'right' or 'left' thing as much as an intelligent strategy to buy lawmakers.

That said, it sure *seems* the economic landscape has shifted far to the right with the tax loopholes and a bunch of other stuff I'm not smart enough to dissect when it comes to how to handle fiscal issues at home. But, with the growing income/wealth gap, stagnant wages, corporations hoarding cash, far too low poverty level line, etc, it sure, again, seems that the right is winning that battle.

Bernie Sanders has a pretty strong track record and a clear cut understanding of those issues.

Compared to Bill Clinton and Bush, Obama has been tougher on wall street. Admittedly, that's faint praise, but it's true. Things are moving to the left. Just look at the demographics. I can understand the frustrations in this thread. That said, I just don't think Bernie is going to move the needle on these issues much more than Clinton.

[Michael]

So the danger is the electorate becoming too far left of the Democratic Party establishment with majorities in the house and senate? What am I not supposed to like about that?

No the danger is sending a candidate to the general election that has a good chance of blowing it.

[Schlich]

So the danger is the electorate becoming too far left of the Democratic Party establishment with majorities in the house and senate? What am I not supposed to like about that?

No the danger is sending a candidate to the general election that has a good chance of blowing it.

Okay, I gotcha. I thought we were talking about the future, not this election, because Pioneer was talking about the past.

[Joe Shlabotnik]

So the danger is the electorate becoming too far left of the Democratic Party establishment with majorities in the house and senate? What am I not supposed to like about that?

No the danger in front of you is that the electorate ISN'T with you on this right now and you don't want to accept it. Someone posted about the hair dresser saying universal coverage was giving something 'free' to people who didn't 'earn' it. The majority of people think this way. And they think this way because the Reagan revolution brought this idealization of the 'business entrepreneur', self-reliance as a governing principle, etc.

That has to change but it won't happen over night. It took over a decade to get the union-leaning working stiffs to abandon their New Deal leanings that were still present in the 60's to the point where they elected Reagan. its going to take a similar amount of hard work to get to a place where this country is ready for what Bernie Sanders is selling.