Dexter Fowler

[Tim]

Maybe players just don't think he is a good manager. Maybe players see how he handled Oscar, Grichuk and Wong, and think "thanks, but no thanks."

FO's, players and league types consistently rank Matheny as one of the best managers in the league.

Show your work.

I guarantee you that Fowler doesn't care one bit about how Matheny handled Oscar, Grichuk or Wong.

How?

[Fat Strat]

What doesn't add up is why he is not signed. It's known an offer was made on Monday. It's known that 3 different reporters in STL have reported that there's a hesitation on Fowler's part to play for Matheny/Cardinals.

There are only a couple different options:
1. Fowler doesn't want to play for the Cardinals and is waiting/hoping for another offer.
2. The offer is too low and Fowler is waiting/hoping for a higher offer....for 3 days now.
3. The reports of the offer to Fowler were wrong.

That's it. We may never know, but 1 is the most likely at this point, no?

We're not privy to all the players thoughts so guessing is just futile. But, we can certainly deduct that Fowler not wanting to play for the Cardinals is within the realm of possibility.

Yes, I acknowleged that here and elsewhere ... that he might not want to play here. I'm trying to get to the bottom of why that is and I just can't seem to put my finger on it. If there is something that, it needs to be addressed. And you have to be able to identify it before you can address it.

I still think this is largely about money. Or years, which is really about money.

About the offer. Goold said that the Cards made an initial offer to Fowler, possibly to just feel out what the final offer would need to be. I have no heard a confirmed report that we submitted a serious, competitive offer to Fowler.

[go birds]

99% of the time its about the money. but i think this is that rare situation where fowler simply does not want to play in st louis, whether it because of matheny, the racial tensions, whatever. i just dont think he wants to be here.

not to mention the fact that he just won a world series. perhaps he wants to go to a contender and not the middling cardinals who most likely wont even get a wild card.

[MrCrowesGarden]

I still find this hard to believe. Unless Fowler just wants to play for Maddon, which doesn't seem like an option at this point.

Matheny isn't that hard nosed. He's more of a player's manager than a disciplinarian. If he has a fault with his handling of players its that he is too loyal to them. He respects vets. He's a strong Christian, but so is Fowler. His teams consistently win, so it's not like Fowler would fear coming here and playing for a sure loser. Some of the most respected players in the game (Holliday, Wainwright, Molina, and others) rave about Matheny.

Despite the smoke, it just doesn't add up. There's probably something there, but I sure can't put my finger on what it could be.

I wouldn't take players blowing sunshine up the manager's backside to mean much. Yadi, Holliday and Waino know what they're expected to do, and they do it. And of course the part about how his teams consistently win is often seen as in spite of him.

I do think there's something to the Christianity nausea-- maybe not necessarily with Fowler, but bigger picture-- but even if he isn't a disciplinarian, he's a traditionalist. I could see if he has customs that bother guys.

Basically, I think Matheny is kind of our Michael Scott. Someone who fashions himself this big leader of men but just isn't that special. I mean, he even has the wacky events down too (giving Jake F'ing Westbrook one last start because the fans deserve it, a goodbye party to Allen Craig).

[lukethedrifter]

So we must accept that is only and always about the money and only the money when we are talking FAs? Don't say years because years equal money. It's only ever about the money. It's never about whether you want to make more than you ever dreamed of in a place you want to work versus a place you aren't so sure about. Got it.

[Fat Strat]

Maybe players just don't think he is a good manager. Maybe players see how he handled Oscar, Grichuk and Wong, and think "thanks, but no thanks."

FO's, players and league types consistently rank Matheny as one of the best managers in the league.

Show your work.

I guarantee you that Fowler doesn't care one bit about how Matheny handled Oscar, Grichuk or Wong.

How?

Oh geez, seriously? I don't remember where; it's not like I carry links for those things around in my pocket. There have been articles and stuff mentioned before. Search for them yourself if you care or don't believe me. I really couldn't care less.

There is no correlation between the way that Matheny treats rookies and young players who are performing poorly and paid nothing and the way he would treat a high priced, established vet. If Fowler is making his decision not to come here based on the way Matheny handled Oscar Taveras, while ignoring the way Matheny has handled players like Folwer, then he's a complete fool.

[Tim]

Basically, I think Matheny is kind of our Michael Scott. Someone who fashions himself this big leader of men but just isn't that special. I mean, he even has the wacky events down too (giving Jake F'ing Westbrook one last start because the fans deserve it, a goodbye party to Allen Craig).

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Tim]

There is no correlation between the way that Matheny treats rookies and young players who are performing poorly and paid nothing and the way he would treat a high priced, established vet. If Fowler is making his decision not to come here based on the way Matheny handled Oscar Taveras, while ignoring the way Matheny has handled players like Folwer, then he's a complete fool.

My point is that maybe DF thinks MM is the complete fool.

And he'd be right.

[JL21]

So we must accept that is only and always about the money and only the money when we are talking FAs? Don't say years because years equal money. It's only ever about the money. It's never about whether you want to make more than you ever dreamed of in a place you want to work versus a place you aren't so sure about. Got it.

I definitely think money and years are the largest driving factor by far. That said, there are surely other factors. Determining those other factors on a case-by-case basis is pretty much folly short of direct quotes and known factors.

As far as the Christianity thing goes, I'm pretty sure that element exists in every single clubhouse in baseball. Players, managers, and even front office people tend to be very conservative and religious. The Cardinals are not unique in this regard.

[Fat Strat]

So we must accept that is only and always about the money and only the money when we are talking FAs? Don't say years because years equal money. It's only ever about the money. It's never about whether you want to make more than you ever dreamed of in a place you want to work versus a place you aren't so sure about. Got it.

Where did you get that from what I said?

I said that "there is probably something there but I'm just not sure what it is".

And that relates to Fowler specifically not wanting to play here because of Matheny himself. Not because he wants to play elsewhere. Not because he's always dreamed of playing for such and such or in a certain place. No, why doesn't Fowler specifically not want to come to the Cards because of Matheny.

That part doesn't fully add up, but I'm not in any way denying it could be true. I just don't know what the problem could be and no one is offering any explanations.