Rant/Rave: Bourbon

[Swirls]

If you pre-empt your list with a bunch of patronizing liquor definitions, it should be better than that.

What's so bad about their list?

[themiddle54]

Jack does not qualify as bourbon or rye. It goes through a special filtering step that disqualifies it as true bourbon.

Charcoal filtering doesn't disqualify it. They just wanted to distinguish themselves and their process.

The Lincoln County process of filtering makes it TN whiskey and not bourbon.

[themiddle54]

If you pre-empt your list with a bunch of patronizing liquor definitions, it should be better than that.

What's so bad about their list?

Their list is fine. And I'm ok with the definitions because not all guests are educated about what they are drinking and won't ask for help with the list either out of shyness or fear of embarrassment. A well worded blurb on a menu can be less pedantic than a snobby server or bartender, which are in abundance these days.

[haltz]

Jack does not qualify as bourbon or rye. It goes through a special filtering step that disqualifies it as true bourbon.

Charcoal filtering doesn't disqualify it. They just wanted to distinguish themselves and their process.

The Lincoln County process of filtering makes it TN whiskey and not bourbon.

This isn't quite correct. TN whiskey IS bourbon. They could still call it bourbon if they wanted to, but they never did. It's not disqualified.

TN whiskey has only been a legally recognized thing since 2009 presumably at the behest of Jack Daniel's and if you're Prichard's you don't have to charcoal filter.

[haltz]

If you pre-empt your list with a bunch of patronizing liquor definitions, it should be better than that.

What's so bad about their list?

I don't think it's a bad list - it's just not good enough to call yourself a whiskey house and make people read federal regulations before they order. There are some serious omissions (and I mean styles and distilleries, not specific bottles) and they've opened themselves up to criticism by being obnoxious.

[Swirls]

If you pre-empt your list with a bunch of patronizing liquor definitions, it should be better than that.

What's so bad about their list?

I don't think it's a bad list - it's just not good enough to call yourself a whiskey house and make people read federal regulations before they order. There are some serious omissions (and I mean styles and distilleries, not specific bottles) and they've opened themselves up to criticism by being obnoxious.

What other styles are you talking about? Like the flavored crap like Fireball or American Honey?

Not trying to be combative - I'm very uneducated when it comes to whiskey/bourbon. The only styles I even know of are bourbon, scotch, Irish, rye, and Canadian.

I typically keep a handle of Seagram's 7 at home and use it for making 7&7's or hot toddies. That's about the extent of my whiskey consumption. I'm interested in a good bourbon tonight at dinner.

[haltz]

I didn't look that hard but unless I missed it there's no wheat or unaged whiskey, Japanese or boutique distilleries, Willett, Old Forester etc and a ton of Beam and Trace.

Obviously I feel like the education is little off-putting but I respect Middle's opinion and that could just be me. It's also possible if not probable that what they have on their website is only part of their list this evening.

[themiddle54]

I think we're splitting hairs on TN whiskey/bourbon a bit, but there is a distinct difference in production.

TN whiskey must be filtered through a sugar maple charcoal filter. This filtration is done before the whiskey is cut with water to get it down to 125 proof or lower, and before aging.

Bourbon is filtered after aging and before bottling, and almost always with activated charcoal.

As far as that whisk(e)y list I guess I can't really say if it's a good one without knowing the concept or whatever of the restaurant. If they're hyping themselves as St. Louis's finest selection of whiskey then that list is pretty poor. If they're a popular crowd-pleasing restaurant with solid food and a friendly atmosphere whose list is written to check off all the boxes that a diverse variety of guests would want, it's a very good list. If they're an Applebee's-grade strip mall joint with crappy cookie-cutter food it's an excellent list.

I definitely see Haltz's point. If they are that family friendly crowd pleaser then having a lesson in whiskey on the menu could be read as pretentious and be unfit for the restaurant.

[haltz]

It's nitpicking, but the reason that they don't call themselves bourbon is not because they couldn't - it's because they didn't want to. It's marketing not disqualification. TN whiskey is simply an additional step that doesn't disqualify - that Dickel does totally differently and Prichards doesn't follow because they don't want to, so really being a TN whiskey is about being a bourbon from TN with a lobby

[themiddle54]

No, you're right, Jack Daniel's devised the Lincoln County method so that it could distinguish itself. However, because bourbon does not go through a sugar maple charcoal filter (with 1-2 exceptions) bourbon can't be TN whiskey and is therefore a different thing.

I went back and looked at my BarSmarts workbook from when I took the class. Here's the full text, in which they put TN whiskey and bourbon in the same category, while noting the difference.

Some people might complain that we’ve lumped these two great whiskeys together, but only a few details separate one from the other and it makes complete sense to address both varieties simultaneously. Both bourbon and Tennessee whiskeys, the greatest whiskeys made in America, require that the producer use only brand new charred oak barrels for aging (customarily, these are made from American white oak). Both utilize corn as the dominant grain in the mashbill (the recipe that contains the grain ratios), along with a little bit of barley and either wheat or rye in similarly small amounts. Both whiskey types carry the sweet character of corn, along with the burnt and smoky wood-like notes of charred barrels. Both demand a legal minimum of two years in those barrels, but anything less than four years in barrel must be spelled out on the label. And, both are distilled to no higher than 160-proof (80 percent alcohol) and bottled at no less than 80-proof (40 percent alcohol).

While Kentucky is the state most identified with bourbon, bourbon can legally come from any state in America. Virginia has long been a whiskey- distilling stronghold. Ironically, Bourbon County, Kentucky, the birthplace of bourbon two centuries ago, has no working distilleries at this time. The majority of bourbons are products of continuous distillation first and then a second distillation in a kettle-like still called a “doubler” or “thumper”.

Tennessee sour mash whiskey is made only in Tennessee. And Tennessee whiskey production has one more little wrinkle. In the mid- 1800s, the founder of Jack Daniel distillery, Alfred Eaton, introduced a filtration step, utilizing little cubes of charcoal from the local sugar maple trees. The “Lincoln County Process” requires only that the spirit be filtered through sugar maple charcoal prior to aging, though the two Tennessee distilleries ( Jack Daniel’s and George Dickel) each employ huge round vats through which the unaged spirit is gently dripped, or in which the spirit soaks. The idea is to remove a few more congeners and render the spirit smoother, but some people think the Lincoln County Process adds a charcoal note to Tennessee whiskey as well.
Otherwise, bourbon and Tennessee whiskeys have much the same flavors and aromas. Another small detail: bourbon requires at least 51 percent corn in the mashbill, though there may be as much as 80 percent; Tennessee has the same minimum of corn but demands that corn fill no more than 79 percent, perhaps in hopes that the small grains (as they call wheat and rye) will produce a slightly lighter, gentler whiskey.

Last, both of these varieties of American whiskey are considered “sour mash” whiskeys, or whiskeys in which a small portion of each fermentation (the “backset”) is held back and then added to the next mash. This innovation was created and promoted by Dr. James Crow in the 1830s and remains a staple production step to this day. The sour mash concept ensures a large measure of character, continuity and consistency from batch to batch.

Because there is a flavor difference, despite almost the same mash bill requirements and aging, due to the filtration of TN whiskey I think it is important to differentiate between the two.