rant: fine dining

[IMADreamer]

Speaking of pizza, we ate at Erio's the other day. Really liked that place. Kinda weird it's in an old strip mall but the service was great, the pizza was too, and it was reasonable.

[tlombard]

We have a new catering company in our building and they've been here about a month and a half now. The food is definitely better and that can probably be attributed to the way the contract was negotiated. It seems we finally got smart and now they have incentive to actually try and get us to use the cafeteria. Our building isn't going to be profitable on it's own so our company pays a subsidy. It seems that previously the subsidy was a flat rate so there was no incentive to provide quality. They didn't care. They were going to make the same amount of money no matter what. Now the subsidy is based on their sales. They can profit more if they sell more.

But the reason I came to this thread is because I find it hilarious that they all refer to each other as 'chef' while they deep fry chicken strips, fries, etc. and cook burgers on a flat top grill. Or work the sandwich station. By their definition, Subway is stocked with chefs.

[CardsofSTL]

Are they certified chefs that have graduated from a culinary school? Could be they are just there to get a little experience under the belt.

[themiddle54]

Culinary school does not make a cook a chef or certify anyone "chef." Rising to the position is what does it. Chef is a job title, and it's like General--kitchens are organized like brigades. Chef. Chef de Cuisine. Sous chef. Chef de partie. So on. Calling everyone who works in a kitchen 'chef' is like calling every private in the military 'general.' It's like calling every guy in a suit sitting on an NBA bench "head coach." Graduating culinary school is like graduating with a law degree (though easier). Someone with a freshly printed JD diploma isn't "Superior Court Justice Smith", even if Smith fancies himself on track to Superior Court judge in his career.

Why do they do it? First, media. Watch Gordon Ramsey or one of the other competition shows on TV. "Today, chefs, your challenge is....." Very few on those shows are chefs. A few, but most are line cooks who they deem good for reality TV more than they are the cream of the culinary crop. There was guy worked for us several years ago who we fired because he could not cut it for a service. He was sweating booze, could barely stay on his feet for six hours let alone a full shift and was a horrible employee. He went on one of those shows and was the fat, mouthy one, was a big hit, and was referred to repeatedly on the show as "chef." I think he works in construction or house painting or something like that now, 3-4 years later. Second, they all think they're chefs so it's a self-applied label, like the Superior Court Justice Smith thing above. It's a dysfunctional thing in which every 23 year old in the kitchen thinks he should be an exec chef after a year or two because of their incredible artistic talent and they refer to themselves as "chef." But "chef" entails managing and motivating staff, managing budgets, managing menus, managing inventory, and a lot of other stuff. It's a broad range of skills beyond just cooking that requires a decade or more of experience--like working up to General--that no 23 year old can claim the capacity to execute fully.

There's no one working the catering in an office building who is a 'chef.' There's probably a corporate chef for the company, who spends time in an office costing out items and building menus, and who sends recipes to the line cooks who execute them. There might be a kitchen supervisor or some kind of mid-level kitchen manager. There might even be an actual chef who got tired of long hours and low pay in a restaurant and decided to do something corporate. But they are for sure not all "chef"s.

[tlombard]

You pretty much nailed it right there. These guys are line cooks at best. Not trying to disparage them because they do a decent job and I sure wouldn't want to do it but they are certainly not chefs.

Heck, my mom was the executive chef at a country club for years and got tired of the long hours, physical nature (she has had a hip replacement and having her ankle fused was the final blow) and stress so she stepped down and took a job as a line cook at another country club and she doesn't refer to herself as chef. If you ask her what she does, she'll tell you that she's a line cook and that's all.

She's also much happier as a line cook because she can actually have days off and isn't working 14 hours a day 6 days a week. Now she has a set schedule and when her shift is over, she's out of there.

[CardsofSTL]

I asked if they were certified chefs that graduated from a culinary school; I did not say culinary school certified them as chefs.

[tlombard]

These guys in our cafeteria... no way did they go to culinary school of any kind. The head guy probably did and he could be considered a chef but not the two guys working the flat top grill/steam table or the lady on the sandwich station.

I just came back from in there and saw tomorrow's special is listed as surf and turf. I was interested for a second until I saw the rest which says it consists of 'chopped steak' and tilapia. I'll pass.

On the burrito I got yesterday I didn't realize until after I got back to my desk and bit into it that the beans weren't just your normal pinto beans, they were really sweet baked beans. Not what I want in a burrito.

Thankfully they have some things that are actually good like the flatbread pizzas at the sandwich station which are available every day and are pretty good sized for $4 including all the toppings you want. Initially they were $3 but it didn't take long for them to realize that they were selling them too cheap because that's all anybody was buying. They still sell like crazy at $4 though. I expect them to be $5 before long.

[Diddy]

The chefs that I know really don't do a lot of cooking. At this point their jobs are a lot more management then cook.

[themiddle54]

I asked if they were certified chefs that graduated from a culinary school; I did not say culinary school certified them as chefs.

My intent was mostly to say that culinary school is practically irrelevant in terms of a cook's career. Being a cook is a job in which having a degree or going to a certain school doesn't matter in getting you a job. What matters more are where you have worked and who have you worked for. Some kid just graduated the CIA, third in his class? Cool. I'll take the guy who dropped out of high school and who worked fish at Boka for a year and the grill station there for a year after that. There is no such thing as "certified chef" whether one went to culinary school or not, there is only "chef" and you get it via work and ascending the kitchen hierarchy. If anything culinary school makes one less appealing on paper, unless it's coupled with some badassery in working kitchens.

[CardsofSTL]

I asked if they were certified chefs that graduated from a culinary school; I did not say culinary school certified them as chefs.

My intent was mostly to say that culinary school is practically irrelevant in terms of a cook's career. Being a cook is a job in which having a degree or going to a certain school doesn't matter in getting you a job. What matters more are where you have worked and who have you worked for. Some kid just graduated the CIA, third in his class? Cool. I'll take the guy who dropped out of high school and who worked fish at Boka for a year and the grill station there for a year after that. There is no such thing as "certified chef" whether one went to culinary school or not, there is only "chef" and you get it via work and ascending the kitchen hierarchy. If anything culinary school makes one less appealing on paper, unless it's coupled with some badassery in working kitchens.

I don't question that experience is much more useful than going to a school for culinary training in practical senses. Chef certifications do exist however; and I was just curious as to perhaps that is why they were calling each other "chef" this and "chef" that. Anyway...that movie Chef with Jon Favreau is pretty good.