"not worthy of its own thread" offseason thread

[Fat Strat]

If the Cardinals were convinced Moustakas could be a decent middle reliever, they would have signed him.

Ha, true. They better hope Jose Martinez doesn’t fall on his face because it’s his presence that kept anything like Moustakas from happening. The league min is still a lot less than Moose got but there is no guarantee that Martinez isn’t J-Rod this season

[MrCrowesGarden]

Teams are incentivized not to win.

This isn't to say that I don't think MLBPA didn't screw things up because they did.

I don't agree.

Teams aren't incentivized to not win, they're incentivized to not spend.

Those might seem like similar claims, but I don't think they are.

I think they can be the same. I mean the Yankees are playing something called a Miguel Andujar at third base because the luxury tax is poison (the MLBPA does take a lot of blame for this). It's under the guise of competitive balance, but at least a third of teams want to lose and maybe a handful of others aren't trying super hard to win.

If you want another complaint that could be directed toward the MLBPA-- because I do sympathize with the Mooses of the world-- it's that these homegrown options look a lot less appealing if they're getting paid better.

[heyzeus]

If the Cardinals were convinced Moustakas could be a decent middle reliever, they would have signed him.

Maybe we meant to sign Moustakas on a 2/15 deal but accidentally made a deal with Mikolas' agent instead. It's an easy mistake to make.

[jagtrader]

If the Cardinals were convinced Moustakas could be a decent middle reliever, they would have signed him.

Ha, true. They better hope Jose Martinez doesn’t fall on his face because it’s his presence that kept anything like Moustakas from happening. The league min is still a lot less than Moose got but there is no guarantee that Martinez isn’t J-Rod this season

I think Martinez is for real. I also don't think the Cardinals have a backup 3B and we're going to end up seeing a lot of Greg Garcia.

[Jocephus]

ESPN's Jerry Crasnick reports that the Athletics are close to an agreement with Jonathan Lucroy.
Related: Athletics
Source: Jerry Crasnick on Twitter
Mar 9 - 4:31 PM

[Momo]

They are incentivized to win cheaply with young, bargain priced prospects and international free agents that they are not allowed to pay a decent bonus to sign. If they think they can get 20 homers out of a combination of prospects that they can send up and down until one of them sticks for the league minimum then they aren't going to pay $10+M for a 30 year old veteran who might hit them 25 homers with the way the current CBA is written.

If they win great, bloggers will write about how well the front office scouted and trusted their talent. If they don't win then they are rebuilding through the draft looking to the future. They almost can't lose if they spin things correctly to the media that covers them and influences a good portion of their fan base.

Pretty much the exact issue. Which is kind of why I would say they're incentivized to not "spend." Because they can't spend without incurring some kind of penalties or at least accumulating towards penalties, and to boot, the players they can spend on are usually old and theoretically in their plateau or decline.

In the current market, you don't seem to buy talent (i.e., throwing money around as leverage). You develop talent, and if the talent works out for your needs, perfect. If not, you sell off the surplus and get the piece you need. But you seemingly only do that after you try to see if the talent you have works or not.

Teams are incentivized not to win.

This isn't to say that I don't think MLBPA didn't screw things up because they did.

I don't agree.

Teams aren't incentivized to not win, they're incentivized to not spend.

Those might seem like similar claims, but I don't think they are.

I think they can be the same. I mean the Yankees are playing something called a Miguel Andujar at third base because the luxury tax is poison (the MLBPA does take a lot of blame for this). It's under the guise of competitive balance, but at least a third of teams want to lose and maybe a handful of others aren't trying super hard to win.

If you want another complaint that could be directed toward the MLBPA-- because I do sympathize with the Mooses of the world-- it's that these homegrown options look a lot less appealing if they're getting paid better.

What the hell is this lol? "Something called a"?

Yes, the Yankees are hoping to play a Top 100 prospect, and one of the best 3B prospects in MiLB at 3B. Not really a big deal, and they're not at all relevant to the idea of teams not trying to win. They've even got Torres ready to play some 3B if he has to.

That said, yeah, they can be the same claim, but they aren't always. I don't know if they are usually. Because sure, I agree that the major league minimum is a joke, and probably between at least half and a third of what it actually should be. But that incentivization to not spend is currently built into the CBA. Luxury taxation, qualifying offer penalties, international spending limits and low minimum salaries all mean that teams are seemingly incentivized to find in-house solutions first.

Add in issues like the current launch angle revolution and the juiced ball (the latter being explicitly the actual MLB's fault), and it's really easy to see why a given team might prefer to try some in-house solutions before spending on a 29 year-old, possibly in decline, like Moose.

If the Cardinals were convinced Moustakas could be a decent middle reliever, they would have signed him.

Ha, true. They better hope Jose Martinez doesn’t fall on his face because it’s his presence that kept anything like Moustakas from happening. The league min is still a lot less than Moose got but there is no guarantee that Martinez isn’t J-Rod this season

I think Martinez is for real. I also don't think the Cardinals have a backup 3B and we're going to end up seeing a lot of Greg Garcia.

I assume they're holding Munoz for a quick call-up if Jedd goes down.

[MrCrowesGarden]

The Yankees are one of the teams that are trying to win, but they still have some value in a marginal win because the Red Sox are close enough that either one could be division winners. It's not like the Astros taking a pass.

There should have been more teams in on Moose on a one-year deal. I'm not specifically blaming the Cardinals here, but they could've doubled that contract and I wouldn't have flinched.

[jagtrader]

Maybe Munoz gets the call if someone is on the DL. Doesn't change the fact that Garcia is the primary backup at three positions unless Carpenter can slap on enough Ben Gay to play third base.

[Momo]

The Yankees are one of the teams that are trying to win, but they still have some value in a marginal win because the Red Sox are close enough that either one could be division winners. It's not like the Astros taking a pass.

There should have been more teams in on Moose on a one-year deal. I'm not specifically blaming the Cardinals here, but they could've doubled that contract and I wouldn't have flinched.

Sure, there's value in a marginal win upgrade, but does it really make sense for them to upgrade that slot?

They have at least three players who can play the hot corner, two of which are highly touted Top 100 (in some lists Top 20) prospects. It seems like a waste of money and a level of insurance that they don't need. They already got Drury for the insurance last month.

It’s hilarious that we’re now at a point where people are whining that the Yankees aren’t wasting enough money anymore.

[Hoot45]

If the Cardinals were convinced Moustakas could be a decent middle reliever, they would have signed him.

Ha, true. They better hope Jose Martinez doesn’t fall on his face because it’s his presence that kept anything like Moustakas from happening. The league min is still a lot less than Moose got but there is no guarantee that Martinez isn’t J-Rod this season

Don't forget about Luke.