Rant/Rave: Bourbon

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thrill
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Re: Rant/Rave: Bourbon

Post by thrill »

33anda3rd wrote:There's one from Austin TX that's pretty good called Garrison Brothers. The secret to these hot climate whiskeys is the aging. In KY there are only a couple big diurnal shifts per year. Once as winter turns to summer, once as summer turns to winter. In places like AZ and TX they have two diurnal shifts every 24 hours: as the very hot day becomes the cool night and then back to the next hot day. This regular expansion/contraction of the barrels pulls and pushes the whiskey in and out of the wood and they can age a bourbon for 4 years that tastes like it was in the wood for 10.
So that's basically the idea for our scheme. For various reasons (runway costs, meeting already high demand) this distillery is only aging 11 months on their regular releases and 18 months on their "Distiller's Select."

Me and some friends approached them about us buying two ex-bourbon barrels and putting the Dorado product in for 3-4 years depending on evaporation loss and taste. We're going to pay up front for the raw product, labor, branding, and "services" and at the end own the product. At that point we can keep it, sell it direct to consumers through their special release program, sell to distributors. Garrison Brothers & Kavalan are the model, but they are both much less arid climates, especially during summer. It's not a huge investment split 3-4 ways, and I'm mostly in it out of curiosity and the opportunity to participate in the creation of a product I love that I would otherwise not be able to. They seem intrigued and open to our idea so far. Just have to nail down cost/expectations.

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33anda3rd
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Re: Rant/Rave: Bourbon

Post by 33anda3rd »

thrill wrote:
33anda3rd wrote:There's one from Austin TX that's pretty good called Garrison Brothers. The secret to these hot climate whiskeys is the aging. In KY there are only a couple big diurnal shifts per year. Once as winter turns to summer, once as summer turns to winter. In places like AZ and TX they have two diurnal shifts every 24 hours: as the very hot day becomes the cool night and then back to the next hot day. This regular expansion/contraction of the barrels pulls and pushes the whiskey in and out of the wood and they can age a bourbon for 4 years that tastes like it was in the wood for 10.
So that's basically the idea for our scheme. For various reasons (runway costs, meeting already high demand) this distillery is only aging 11 months on their regular releases and 18 months on their "Distiller's Select."

Me and some friends approached them about us buying two ex-bourbon barrels and putting the Dorado product in for 3-4 years depending on evaporation loss and taste. We're going to pay up front for the raw product, labor, branding, and "services" and at the end own the product. At that point we can keep it, sell it direct to consumers through their special release program, sell to distributors. Garrison Brothers & Kavalan are the model, but they are both much less arid climates, especially during summer. It's not a huge investment split 3-4 ways, and I'm mostly in it out of curiosity and the opportunity to participate in the creation of a product I love that I would otherwise not be able to. They seem intrigued and open to our idea so far. Just have to nail down cost/expectations.
Thrill, I like the plan, it sounds interesting. So I understand it...

Dorado is 100% malted barley, malted over mesquite, or there are other cereal grains going in?

You're doing refill barrels I assume because the mesquite is already adding enough flavor that you don't want to age in this climate in new oak, and want to avoid an oak bomb?

The 11 months aging makes sense, since they're not making bourbon and don't have to adhere to regulations required to put that word on a bottle. The startup cost thing can be a bear, that's why you see new distilleries offering vodka and gin right after opening to have some cash flow going while they age the stuff they're really passionate about. Marianne down at Castle & Key in KY is quite sharp and will probably have some nice bourbon in 10 years, but she's just selling clear spirits now to cover start up, infrastructure, etc.

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thrill
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Re: Rant/Rave: Bourbon

Post by thrill »

33anda3rd wrote: Dorado is 100% malted barley, malted over mesquite, or there are other cereal grains going in?
100% malted barley. Single malt.
33anda3rd wrote: You're doing refill barrels I assume because the mesquite is already adding enough flavor that you don't want to age in this climate in new oak, and want to avoid an oak bomb?
Ex-bourbon barrels to avoid over-oaking in a climate that we're not totally sure what 4 years in a new barrel would produce because the temp swings you mentioned will be intense, and also for the finishing element. Our logic is that we love Kavalan Solist and they use ex-bourbon barrels and it has more complexity with vanilla/coconut/fruit notes than you typically find in single malts. Right now the Dorado single malt is incredibly unique, very interesting, and really good, but it's weaknesses are that it's rough on the finish/needs smoothing out, and the smoke is too loud. Hopefully the aging and barrel finish will lend it to a smooth and uniquely complex profile with some Arizona terroir from the mesquite.
33anda3rd wrote: The startup cost thing can be a bear, that's why you see new distilleries offering vodka and gin right after opening to have some cash flow going while they age the stuff they're really passionate about.
That's pretty common and what I've noticed about the young whiskeys being produced by many of the local distillers (here, in FL, and stuff I've tried while traveling) that do gin and vodka is that...they suck. I think often the craft liquor boom causes people to put profit over product and that's something I don't think this shop is doing which, along with the mesquite smoke, adds something that stands out among the small craft offerings I typically see. It's a lot like taking an unrefined speyside style single malt and drinking it while breathing a campfire.

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33anda3rd
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Re: Rant/Rave: Bourbon

Post by 33anda3rd »

Sounds like a fun project. Let us know in however many years when you have some bottles!

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GeddyWrox
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Re: Rant/Rave: Bourbon

Post by GeddyWrox »

33anda3rd wrote:Sounds like a fun project. Let us know in however many years when you have some bottles!
Indeed. And if you're "distributing", I'll take one! :D

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Re: Rant/Rave: Bourbon

Post by 33anda3rd »

Me too, I'll send you back something in exchange.

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thrill
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Re: Rant/Rave: Bourbon

Post by thrill »

Bump this in like 4 years and I'll definitely send you guys some.

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G. Keenan
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Re: Rant/Rave: Bourbon

Post by G. Keenan »

Can't wait to get me some private barrel GRB Edición Especial.

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Re: Rant/Rave: Bourbon

Post by Michael »

It should be served warm in a "The Keith" bottle.

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G. Keenan
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Re: Rant/Rave: Bourbon

Post by G. Keenan »

Michael wrote:It should be served warm in a "The Keith" bottle.
I think I've still got one in a box somewhere.

Those were the days . . .

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