Joe Biden - Pros & Cons

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Arthur Dent
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Re: Joe Biden - Pros & Cons

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G. Keenan wrote:Pros: Everybody likes him. He passes the candidate you'd like to have a beer test with with flying colors. Let's be honest, the Presidential race is little more than a big personality contest. In our celebrity-obsessed culture people vote for the most charismatic candidate.
Counterpoint: if you actually listen to him, he is weird and annoying. In addition to having bad politics, his electoral record is also pretty bad. No upside whatsoever. Just say no.
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G. Keenan
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Re: Joe Biden - Pros & Cons

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Arthur Dent wrote:
G. Keenan wrote:Pros: Everybody likes him. He passes the candidate you'd like to have a beer test with with flying colors. Let's be honest, the Presidential race is little more than a big personality contest. In our celebrity-obsessed culture people vote for the most charismatic candidate.
Counterpoint: if you actually listen to him, he is weird and annoying. In addition to having bad politics, his electoral record is also pretty bad. No upside whatsoever. Just say no.
Yeah, his whole appeal is as Obama's wing man. All those great Onion bits on him are how everyone thinks of him now. I don't think he'll actually do that well during the debates when the other candidates dunk on him when it comes to policy, and don't have the baggage of so many terrible votes in the 90's.

He's a hard pass for me. Of course, if he gets the nomination I'll vote for him.
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pioneer98
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Re: Joe Biden - Pros & Cons

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doe_boy
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Re: Joe Biden - Pros & Cons

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Joe Biden was, is, and always will be a con.
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33anda3rd
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Re: Joe Biden - Pros & Cons

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greenback44 wrote:As for the whiny line about everybody needing to along, I remember hearing the same damn thing in 2008. I'm skeptical of the significance of being mean to one another in the primary season.
There's an old line, in the form of a joke: "The difference between Democrats and cannibals is that cannibals eat only their enemies." Lyndon Johnson said that, so it's not a particularly new phenomenon.

There's a more recent joke by the humorist Will Rogers: "The difference between a Republican and a Democrat is the Democrat is a cannibal. They have to live off each other, while the Republicans, why, they live off the Democrats."

Both have a nice bit of truth to them. The Republicans stick together and their collective enemy is the Democrats, while the Democrats enemies are the GOP plus the Democrats who are not their brand of Democrat. We LOVE to cast people aside. Sometimes that's a good thing: Franken, Weinstein, Louis CK are liberal people who w collectively eschewed. But we're too collectively extreme. Does Hillary Clinton need to not run again, or does Hillary Clinton need to go away and never again be heard from? There are Dems who think both, and the latter is just flat ignorant: the idea that a former First Lady, SoS, and Senator from a major state has nothing to say or nothing to teach the younger generation is wrong. But plenty of Dems will happily scream me down for that because by god it's time for Hillary to walk in the woods so 30 year-old can lead. The GOP doesn't do that with Giuliani, Gingrich, any of them, and that unity is party why they are still able to win elections despite having zero modern ideas. We are really good on the left and finding a candidate with 50 things we like dismissing her because of the 4 things we don't like. We can be like abortion-voters, except instead of having that one issue we base everything on, we look for the one boogeyman issue about a candidate--whatever it may be--for a reason to not support her.

So you can dismiss that as whiny all you want, but it's true and it's something we need to shore up on the left to make sure we stop losing elections to awful candidates like W and Trump.
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lukethedrifter
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Re: Joe Biden - Pros & Cons

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The IAFF loooooves Biden.
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Smith Corks One
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Re: Joe Biden - Pros & Cons

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33anda3rd wrote:There's an old line, in the form of a joke: "The difference between Democrats and cannibals is that cannibals eat only their enemies." Lyndon Johnson said that, so it's not a particularly new phenomenon.

There's a more recent joke by the humorist Will Rogers: "The difference between a Republican and a Democrat is the Democrat is a cannibal. They have to live off each other, while the Republicans, why, they live off the Democrats."
Will Rogers, more recent than Lyndon Johnson?
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ghostrunner
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Re: Joe Biden - Pros & Cons

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Off the top of my head - Goldwater, Gingrich and much of the pre-wave 1994 Republicans, and the tea party are all arguably examples of the GOP “eating their own”. With mixed results. Goldwater lost and was considered crazy by some in his own party. Gingrich and his group won control of the party and then basically did the Republican version of what Justice Democrats and DSA types are trying to do - reconsider conventional political wisdom and pull their party further in their direction. Gingrich’s group was really disciplined and successful. The tea party was pretty unfocused and had short term gains and long term I think is a bit more mixed. They’ve gotten a lot of anti government loons locked into Congress and pushed their justices. Some of that is just a continuation of what Gingrich started.

Anyway, it’s just politics. I don’t think Democrats have any special flaws or tendencies here. I think from FDR through JFK they were on the same page and the same from 1992 through Obama they were pretty much in lockstep. I’m glad people are re-examining priorities and holding people to account for bad ideas.
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33anda3rd
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Re: Joe Biden - Pros & Cons

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Smith Corks One wrote:
33anda3rd wrote:There's an old line, in the form of a joke: "The difference between Democrats and cannibals is that cannibals eat only their enemies." Lyndon Johnson said that, so it's not a particularly new phenomenon.

There's a more recent joke by the humorist Will Rogers: "The difference between a Republican and a Democrat is the Democrat is a cannibal. They have to live off each other, while the Republicans, why, they live off the Democrats."
Will Rogers, more recent than Lyndon Johnson?
bah, crap, fingers carried away, point was less recent, to underscore that this isn't a new thing w/r/t us on the left.
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ghostrunner
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Re: Joe Biden - Pros & Cons

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I just don’t see this guy exciting people in November
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