Lesser of 2 evils

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Lesser of 2 evils

Donald Trump
5
33%
Dick Cheney
10
67%
 
Total votes: 15
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33anda3rd
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Re: Lesser of 2 evils

Post by 33anda3rd »

Cheney lived in the shadows and dealt in the halls of the White House, out of plain sight. He was evil but he knew not to broadcast his evil.

Trump flaunts his ignorance and racism and misogyny and practically wears his status as a scumbag like a badge of honor. He tells crowds that hundreds of immigrants are charging two lone border guards at our southern border on a constant basis, like it's the Irish charge at Falkirk in Braveheart on repeat, inspiring that crowd to call for violence which he then makes light of. Cheney did not know those lows, I'm fairly sure, despite having set the bar for low himself. In being so public with his hate and stupidity and in rallying people to believe in fundamental lies Trump makes the world stupider, normalizes stuff like Charlottesville, and inspires incidents like the Christchurch shooting in New Zealand. He's far worse because he inspires everyday citizens with mental problems and hate in their hearts to do awful things that negatively impact their fellow citizens on a direct daily basis. Just on the normalization of violent white nationalism alone--remove everything else--Trump is the greater evil. Just on that. That this is so normalized that a few years ago if you said "You gotta be at least a little racist to support a proud racist for POTUS" people acted like you were being offensive is an incredible evil.
Last edited by 33anda3rd on May 9 19, 12:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Lesser of 2 evils

Post by Freed Roger »

Yeah, sort of a trick question. How much harm could Trump's evil cause without the GOP? A sociopath with narcissist bent and could have done only so much...without Cheneyesque GOP.
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Re: Lesser of 2 evils

Post by 33anda3rd »

Freed Roger wrote:Yeah, sort of a trick question. How much harm could Trump's evil cause without the GOP? A sociopath with narcissist bent and could have done only so much...without Cheneyesque GOP.
So if he were never elected, if he lost to Hillary, and he were still out campaigning in front of people and screaming about hundreds of immigrants bum-rushing our southern border, and Hillary was in the White House, and if insider GOPers like Spineless Mitch were condemning his words the way a Limo Liberal dismisses Sanders, I'm fairly sure that "without the GOP" he'd be the greater evil because he would be out inciting violence and hate the same as he does from the White House and did before the White House from Twitter and the campaign trail and television and Howard Stern. Maybe with a smaller audience, but the Christchurch guy and the Facebook weirdos and FOX and Alex Jones and all of them would still be listening.
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Re: Lesser of 2 evils

Post by pioneer98 »

33anda3rd wrote:Cheney lived in the shadows and dealt in the halls of the White House, out of plain sight. He was evil but he knew not to broadcast his evil.

Trump flaunts his ignorance and racism and misogyny and practically wears his status as a scumbag like a badge of honor. He tells crowds that hundreds of immigrants are charging two lone border guards at our southern border on a constant basis, like it's the Irish charge at Falkirk in Braveheart on repeat, inspiring that crowd to call for violence which he then makes light of. Cheney did not know those lows, I'm fairly sure, despite having set the bar for low himself. In being so public with his hate and stupidity and in rallying people to believe in fundamental lies Trump makes the world stupider, normalizes stuff like Charlottesville, and inspires incidents like the Christchurch shooting in New Zealand. He's far worse because he inspires everyday citizens with mental problems and hate in their hearts to do awful things that negatively impact their fellow citizens on a direct daily basis. Just on the normalization of violent white nationalism alone--remove everything else--Trump is the greater evil. Just on that. That this is so normalized that a few years ago if you said "You gotta be at least a little racist to support a proud racist for POTUS" people acted like you were being offensive is an incredible evil.
I understand all of that, but it's really hard to say that all that is worse than the Iraq War, which had somewhere between 450K and 500K deaths, and is still going to this day. And that war has also radicalized lots of people, too...just not American people. It also normalized torture and rendition and Cheney personally profited from the war via Halliburton. Like I said, I can see arguments for both guys and it's a tough call to say which one was worse. I could be convinced either way I guess.
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33anda3rd
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Re: Lesser of 2 evils

Post by 33anda3rd »

pioneer98 wrote:
33anda3rd wrote:Cheney lived in the shadows and dealt in the halls of the White House, out of plain sight. He was evil but he knew not to broadcast his evil.

Trump flaunts his ignorance and racism and misogyny and practically wears his status as a scumbag like a badge of honor. He tells crowds that hundreds of immigrants are charging two lone border guards at our southern border on a constant basis, like it's the Irish charge at Falkirk in Braveheart on repeat, inspiring that crowd to call for violence which he then makes light of. Cheney did not know those lows, I'm fairly sure, despite having set the bar for low himself. In being so public with his hate and stupidity and in rallying people to believe in fundamental lies Trump makes the world stupider, normalizes stuff like Charlottesville, and inspires incidents like the Christchurch shooting in New Zealand. He's far worse because he inspires everyday citizens with mental problems and hate in their hearts to do awful things that negatively impact their fellow citizens on a direct daily basis. Just on the normalization of violent white nationalism alone--remove everything else--Trump is the greater evil. Just on that. That this is so normalized that a few years ago if you said "You gotta be at least a little racist to support a proud racist for POTUS" people acted like you were being offensive is an incredible evil.
I understand all of that, but it's really hard to say that all that is worse than the Iraq War, which had somewhere between 450K and 500K deaths, and is still going to this day. And that war has also radicalized lots of people, too...just not American people. It also normalized torture and rendition and Cheney personally profited from the war via Halliburton. Like I said, I can see arguments for both guys and it's a tough call to say which one was worse. I could be convinced either way I guess.
It's a tough call, but for me Trump holding rallies where he disparages non-white people and calls journalists the enemy of the state, where fake news is real news and real news is fake news, is fascism. I'd say he's copying Hitler's playbook if I didn't know that he's too dumb and too lacking in curiosity to ever read history, which leads me to conclude he just kind of naturally possesses all the characteristics of a fascist leader.

I'd probably think different if Cheney traveled the country selling Make Baghdad A Rockpile Again hats, turning his corruption into populism. Or sold t-shirts on his website mocking his predecessor to raise money for his campaign, insinuating with the t-shirt that his predecessor spied on him while he was doing nothing wrong.
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Tim
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Re: Lesser of 2 evils

Post by Tim »

Cheney - war is worse than anything Trump has done
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Re: Lesser of 2 evils

Post by Freed Roger »

[quote="Tim"]Cheney - war is worse than anything Trump has done[/quote]
Cheney didn't do that war by himself. Bush, GoP establishment, Rummy and just about every rep/senate dem that was challenged in midterms (HRC) had a hand in it.

I have waffled, but settled on Trump based on 33rds reasoning. When POTUs is openly racist, courting violence in rallies and calling media an enemy of the state....that sets this nation back 170 years.

I don't care for the term white privilege, but the notion that I am unaffected personally by Trump regime policies is a matter of privilege. As a human, what happens to the lesser privileged, happens to all of us. They pick on those not in position to do anything but keep on plugging. No clout. The Least of These....

Wars, give him a chance. He just might. Is it a good thing he is friends with the dictators of the world and has distanced US from democratic allies?
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33anda3rd
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Re: Lesser of 2 evils

Post by 33anda3rd »

Freed Roger wrote:Wars, give him a chance. He just might.
His first half year in office Trump had dropped more bombs in the Middle East than Obama did in his full final year. Middle East civilian deaths are way up since Trump took office. 2017 set a record for most civilian deaths in Iraq and Syria. I'm not making this stuff up:

Trump Has Dropped A Record Number Of Bombs In The Middle East

Middle East Civilian Deaths Have Soared Under Trump
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Re: Lesser of 2 evils

Post by ghostrunner »

Cheney. So far. But Trump has a higher ceiling. He foments/encourages nationalism, xenophobia, racism. Creates division as a rule.

And then there’s the nukes. I don’t think he’s interested in war per se, but defeating opponents the “easy way” seems very much his style. If there’s a 9/11 on his watch I think we’re in for some bad [expletive].
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Re: Lesser of 2 evils

Post by Tim »

ghostrunner wrote:Cheney. So far. But Trump has a higher ceiling. He foments/encourages nationalism, xenophobia, racism. Creates division as a rule.

And then there’s the nukes. I don’t think he’s interested in war per se, but defeating opponents the “easy way” seems very much his style. If there’s a 9/11 on his watch I think we’re in for some bad [expletive].
This is where I am at. Wouldn't surprise me for Trump to blow right past Cheney at some point.
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