Mozeliak: "Some Changes" Coming For Cardinals, But Not A Rebuild

[dmarx114]

The Yankees have averaged 98.5 wins over the last 4 non covid seasons.

George must be rolling over in his grave with this level of mediocrity.

[Lesson]

Of course, they have more money than God and should use it. George wouldn't have stood for it.

100%. Cashman would've been gone by now and they'd splurge more in FA on players that weren't already theirs.

The Yankees have averaged 98.5 wins over the last 4 non covid seasons.

George must be rolling over in his grave with this level of mediocrity.

If they don't win the WS this season, they will be in the longest drought in franchise history in between WS titles.

[jagtrader]

The same people who said the bullpen was fine in April will tell you the front office is doing a bang-up job.

[Famous Mortimer]

Since 2010, half the teams in baseball have reached the World Series.

Clearly, the Yankees are failures since they are in the same group as the Marlins, Reds, Pirates, Rockies, and Diamondbacks.

When will that organization ever turn things around?

I think there's a decent distance between getting to the World Series and winning a single NLCS (or ALCS, depending) game. Also, I hope I don't come across like this when I go for some mild sarcasm.

It's an endless reductive series of arguments, which stops in at "the Cardinals almost never play meaningless regular season games" (get ready for about 30 of them this year) or "other teams are jealous of our post-season success" (a series of words that gets more and more meaningless, the further away we get from their last decent post-season run) or just a nice plain "team X has spent $Y and has less success than us". I don't feel bad for wanting the Cardinals to put a product out there that's fun to watch, and I don't care that a few big free agent signings for other teams have gone bad, or that the Yankees have been to fewer WSes than us over a very specific time frame. I care about what the Cardinals do.

[KenBoyer14]

Since 2010, half the teams in baseball have reached the World Series.

Clearly, the Yankees are failures since they are in the same group as the Marlins, Reds, Pirates, Rockies, and Diamondbacks.

When will that organization ever turn things around?

I think there's a decent distance between getting to the World Series and winning a single NLCS (or ALCS, depending) game. Also, I hope I don't come across like this when I go for some mild sarcasm.

It's an endless reductive series of arguments, which stops in at "the Cardinals almost never play meaningless regular season games" (get ready for about 30 of them this year) or "other teams are jealous of our post-season success" (a series of words that gets more and more meaningless, the further away we get from their last decent post-season run) or just a nice plain "team X has spent $Y and has less success than us". I don't feel bad for wanting the Cardinals to put a product out there that's fun to watch, and I don't care that a few big free agent signings for other teams have gone bad, or that the Yankees have been to fewer WSes than us over a very specific time frame. I care about what the Cardinals do.

Precisely my feelings. I only care about what the Cardinals do. And they need to do a lot better.

[Lesson]

The same people who said the bullpen was fine in April will tell you the front office is doing a bang-up job.

I don't mind the approach with the bullpen as relievers are incredibly volatile. And realistically, they're a poor ROI.

I'd rather them focus on converting pitchers who throw fast and strike out people that don't have the greatest control like Hicks to reliever and spend millions elsewhere.

[ghostrunner]

98 wins a year is pretty damn fun, World Series or not. I remember 2004 and 2005 pretty fondly.

[thrill]

I'm sure 99% of the fans pointing out our "relative" success, consistency, and relevance over the last 20 years aren't defending the status quo. Rather, are just pointing out realistically why we don't expect anything to change anytime soon and how we perceive ownership's satisfaction with the status quo.

I mean, I know that's what I'm doing. Of course I want them to spend more, because I can't remember the last season we went into without obvious, glaring holes that would prevent them from contending without the emergence of unforeseen/unplanned Cardinals devil magic. We have pitching and we don't have an impact bat. We get a couple impact bats and then we have no pitching. Very frustrating to be one move away from obvious contention to see them not pull the trigger and settle for being second tier contenders.

I'm a little curious how many of the fans who get really frustrated by this only follow the Cardinals. If you're like me and follow a bunch of different sports, you probably support teams with waaaaaaaaay worse owners and executives and it gives you a greater tolerance for DeMo's mediocre approach. I'm a huge Chicago Bulls fan and Jerry Reinsdorf has made me appreciate Bill DeWitt for what he is, for example. Don't even get me started on the Bears. Might as well be a Pirates fan.

[Famous Mortimer]

I'm a little curious how many of the fans who get really frustrated by this only follow the Cardinals. If you're like me and follow a bunch of different sports, you probably support teams with waaaaaaaaay worse owners and executives and it gives you a greater tolerance for DeMo's mediocre approach. I'm a huge Chicago Bulls fan and Jerry Reinsdorf has made me appreciate Bill DeWitt for what he is, for example. Don't even get me started on the Bears. Might as well be a Pirates fan.

I'm not sure I'd say "really frustrated", mostly because that seems the wheelhouse of the worst people on (awful message board of choice). I wish they'd do better, of course, and (again) I don't think that owners / FOs in other sports being terrible makes our experience any better.

I'm sure 99% of the fans pointing out our "relative" success, consistency, and relevance over the last 20 years aren't defending the status quo. Rather, are just pointing out realistically why we don't expect anything to change anytime soon and how we perceive ownership's satisfaction with the status quo.

Perhaps a discussion for another thread, but...I see your point, but I see those sorts of posts differently. By saying "we cleverer baseball fans understand baseball on a different level", they're defending the status quo because everyone in the universe understands what billionaire owners are like, and we don't need to be told that they'll take mediocrity and profit over risk, ad nauseam. It's the absence of having an opinion, and it shows the mentality I've seen described as "Fangraphs brain", where your posts express much more interest in the bottom line of a huge corporation than they do about the product that's being sold to you.

It's like...being a fan of a TV show, but being more bothered about how much they spend on each episode than the plot.

[MrCrowesGarden]

I'm sure 99% of the fans pointing out our "relative" success, consistency, and relevance over the last 20 years aren't defending the status quo. Rather, are just pointing out realistically why we don't expect anything to change anytime soon and how we perceive ownership's satisfaction with the status quo.

I mean, I know that's what I'm doing. Of course I want them to spend more, because I can't remember the last season we went into without obvious, glaring holes that would prevent them from contending without the emergence of unforeseen/unplanned Cardinals devil magic. We have pitching and we don't have an impact bat. We get a couple impact bats and then we have no pitching. Very frustrating to be one move away from obvious contention to see them not pull the trigger and settle for being second tier contenders.

I'm a little curious how many of the fans who get really frustrated by this only follow the Cardinals. If you're like me and follow a bunch of different sports, you probably support teams with waaaaaaaaay worse owners and executives and it gives you a greater tolerance for DeMo's mediocre approach. I'm a huge Chicago Bulls fan and Jerry Reinsdorf has made me appreciate Bill DeWitt for what he is, for example. Don't even get me started on the Bears. Might as well be a Pirates fan.

I get this, I really do. And I think 99% of us who would like for Bill Dewitt to get bent all the way in half also know nothing is going to change. But, if I have to say it every day on this forum, I will: it's good to talk about what will happen and what should happen! They're both important discussions! I also don't like being told I'm sooooooo spoiled as a Cardinals fan, particularly when the returns have been diminishing for quite a while now.

At the current moment, I think the team I root for that most closely resembles the Cardinals of today is the Pelicans. They've never paid the luxury tax, probably never will. That also means they'll probably never win a championship. The best case scenario is perennial playoff-maker, but not hoisting the title.