Michael Young 5 years $80 million

Post by **Michael** » March 1 07, 9:18 pm

He's a horrible defensive SS. He's more of a 2B, really.

stlmark · Post by **stlmark** » March 1 07, 11:01 pm

I didn't even bother to do the math. Wow, 16 million a year. Albert would easily get at least 20 million on the open market.

Popeye_Card · Post by **Popeye_Card** » March 2 07, 8:16 am

Michael wrote:He's a horrible defensive SS. He's more of a 2B, really.

What's funny is, an good/great offensive 2B these days is more rare (valuable?) than a good/great offensive SS. There's a serious lack of upper-tier talent at 2B right now.

--P--

jagtrader · Post by **jagtrader** » March 2 07, 8:32 am

More rare. Not more valuable.

Popeye_Card · Post by **Popeye_Card** » March 2 07, 8:54 am

jagtrader wrote:More rare. Not more valuable.

Well, a SS is valuable because the glove is more valuable.

But if there's 10 good/great fielding SS's on the market who can hit too, and there's only 5 good/great fielding 2B's on the market who can hit, it's easier to find a guy to plug the SS hole with above average production. It's harder to find a 2B that does the same.

A couple years ago, I argued long and hard for chasing Polanco instead of wasting time with Renteria. Similar offensive production. Similar defensive talent for their position (both are Gold Glove caliber at their respective positions). And Polanco could have been had for half the price at most.

More balls are hit to the SS hole than the 2B hole, thus the difference between a great vs. good SS is more amplified than great vs. good 2B. But you've got 2 MIF positions that you have to fill. If you can find a bat AND glove at 2B and can find an outstanding glove at SS (regardless of how he hits), it's just as effective (if not more) as having a glove & bat at SS and just a glove at 2B.

So in conclusion, if Micheal Young is suspect at SS but could be a good 2B, I'd shift him and find another SS to fill that void. Even if it's only a great glove.

--P--

Popeye_Card · Post by **Popeye_Card** » March 2 07, 9:40 am

Here's a bit of a breakdown between the two positions, based on the OPS+ numbers of the "regular" 2B and SS for every team last year (i.e. the guy that played the most innnings).

2B: 95.6 average OPS+. 8 over 100 (Hudson, Uggla, Kent, Valentin, Utley, Durham, Cano, Kinsler). 1 under 75 (at 74).

SS: 90.9 average OPS+. 11 over 100 (Renteria, Ramirez, Furcal, Hall, Reyes, Rollins, Tejada, Guillen, Jeter, Lugo, Young). 9 under 75.

So the bell curve is a bit different for the two. 2B is really centered in that 80-100 range--19 of the 30 fall in that range. SS is at two extremes--either you're over 100, or you're under 80. Only 8 of the 30 are in that 80-100 range. Some teams are willing to go with just a glove at SS (hence all of the offensive black holes--9 SS's as bad or worse than the worse 2B). Teams don't seem to be so willing to stick with just a glove at 2B, but the offense isn't as potent at the top.

--P--

Hungary Jack · Post by **Hungary Jack** » March 2 07, 11:32 am

Popeye_Card wrote:
Michael wrote:He's a horrible defensive SS. He's more of a 2B, really.
What's funny is, an good/great offensive 2B these days is more rare (valuable?) than a good/great offensive SS. There's a serious lack of upper-tier talent at 2B right now.

--P--

Agreed.

It looks like Young got a better deal than Utley, who is probably a better player right now and will likely improve a bit. Young, at 29, has probably peaked.

But I guess this is the same organization that signed A-Rod to 10/252 and gave Chan Ho Park 5/65.

Popeye_Card · Post by **Popeye_Card** » March 2 07, 11:38 am

Hungary Jack wrote:
Popeye_Card wrote:
Michael wrote:He's a horrible defensive SS. He's more of a 2B, really.
What's funny is, an good/great offensive 2B these days is more rare (valuable?) than a good/great offensive SS. There's a serious lack of upper-tier talent at 2B right now.

--P--
Agreed.

It looks like Young got a better deal than Utley, who is probably a better player right now and will likely improve a bit. Young, at 29, has probably peaked.

But I guess this is the same organization that signed A-Rod to 10/252 and gave Chan Ho Park 5/65.

And the thing is, he's a very good SS, but I don't think he's great. He's now getting a contract that's paying him to be great.

Offensively, he doesn't look that much different than Renteria when you adjust for the home park. Defensively, Renteria's got an edge. And I thought the Cards/Red Sox were going bonkers offering Renteria $10+ million per season...

--P--