Final Four: #1 Ted Williams vs. #1 Willie Mays

Fat Strat · Post by **Fat Strat** » March 26 07, 12:14 pm

Ted Williams

The Red Sox' Ted Williams was one of baseball's greatest hitters. Combining keen vision with quick wrists and a scientific approach to hitting, he set numerous batting records despite missing nearly five full seasons due to military service and two major injuries. His accomplishments include a .406 season in 1941, two Triple Crowns, two MVPs, six American League batting championships, 521 home runs, a lifetime average of .344, 17 All-Star game selections, and universal reverence.

Ted Williams' statistics

Code: Select all

Year Ag Tm  Lg  G   AB    R    H   2B 3B  HR  RBI  SB CS  BB  SO   BA   OBP   SLG *OPS+  TB   SH  SF IBB HBP GDP 
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
 1939 20 BOS AL 149  565  131  185  44 11  31  145   2  1 107  64  .327  .436  .609  160  344   3           2  10 MVP-4
 1940 21 BOS AL 144  561  134  193  43 14  23  113   4  4  96  54  .344  .442  .594  162  333   1           3  13 MVP-14,AS
 1941 22 BOS AL 143  456  135  185  33  3  37  120   2  4 147  27  .406  .553  .735  235  335   0           3  10 MVP-2,AS
 1942 23 BOS AL 150  522  141  186  34  5  36  137   3  2 145  51  .356  .499  .648  217  338   0           4  12 MVP-2,AS
 1946 27 BOS AL 150  514  142  176  37  8  38  123   0  0 156  44  .342  .497  .667  215  343   0           2  12 MVP-1,AS
 1947 28 BOS AL 156  528  125  181  40  9  32  114   0  1 162  47  .343  .499  .634  205  335   1           2  10 MVP-2,AS
 1948 29 BOS AL 137  509  124  188  44  3  25  127   4  0 126  41  .369  .497  .615  189  313   0           3  10 MVP-3,AS
 1949 30 BOS AL 155  566  150  194  39  3  43  159   1  1 162  48  .343  .490  .650  192  368   0           2  22 MVP-1,AS
 1950 31 BOS AL  89  334   82  106  24  1  28   97   3  0  82  21  .317  .452  .647  168  216   0           0  12 MVP-21,AS
 1951 32 BOS AL 148  531  109  169  28  4  30  126   1  1 144  45  .318  .464  .556  164  295   0           0  10 MVP-13,AS
 1952 33 BOS AL   6   10    2    4   0  1   1    3   0  0   2   2  .400  .500  .900  272    9   0           0   0
 1953 34 BOS AL  37   91   17   37   6  0  13   34   0  1  19  10  .407  .509  .901  267   82   0           0   1 MVP-26,AS
 1954 35 BOS AL 117  386   93  133  23  1  29   89   0  0 136  32  .345  .513  .635  201  245   0   3       1  10 MVP-7,AS
 1955 36 BOS AL  98  320   77  114  21  3  28   83   2  0  91  24  .356  .496  .703  209  225   0   4  17   2   8 MVP-4,AS
 1956 37 BOS AL 136  400   71  138  28  2  24   82   0  0 102  39  .345  .479  .605  172  242   0   0  11   1  13 MVP-6,AS
 1957 38 BOS AL 132  420   96  163  28  1  38   87   0  1 119  43  .388  .526  .731  233  307   0   2  33   5  11 MVP-2,AS
 1958 39 BOS AL 129  411   81  135  23  2  26   85   1  0  98  49  .328  .458  .584  178  240   0   4  12   4  19 MVP-7,AS
 1959 40 BOS AL 103  272   32   69  15  0  10   43   0  0  52  27  .254  .372  .419  113  114   0   5   6   2   7 MVP-26,AS
 1960 41 BOS AL 113  310   56   98  15  0  29   72   1  1  75  41  .316  .451  .645  189  200   0   2   7   3   7 MVP-13,AS
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
 19 Seasons         7706      2654     71     1839     17     709  .344  .482  .634  190        5  20  86  39 197
               2292      1798      525    521       24   2021                            4884
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
 162 Game Avg        545  127  188  37  5  37  130   2  1 143  50  .344  .482  .634  190  345   0   1   6   3  14
 Career High    156  566  150  194  44 14  43  159   4  4 162  64  .406  .553  .735  235  368   3   5  33   5  22

Most similar players:
Jimmie Foxx (864) *
Lou Gehrig (855) *
Mel Ott (807) *
Mickey Mantle (770) *
Frank Robinson (738) *
Babe Ruth (727) *
Ken Griffey (724)
Frank Thomas (710)
Gary Sheffield (688)
Jeff Bagwell (687)

vs.

Willie Mays

Bio

Willie Howard Mays Jr. (born May 6, 1931 in Westfield, Alabama outside nearby Birmingham) is a former star baseball player and an American icon. Mays, nicknamed The Say Hey Kid was elected to the Baseball Hall of Fame in 1979, his first year of eligibility. During his playing days, Mays won two MVP awards and made twenty-four appearances in the All-Star Game.

Stats

Code: Select all

Year Ag Tm  Lg  G   AB    R    H   2B 3B  HR  RBI  SB CS  BB  SO   BA   OBP   SLG *OPS+  TB   SH  SF IBB HBP GDP 
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
 1951 20 NYG NL 121  464   59  127  22  5  20   68   7  4  57  60  .274  .356  .472  120  219   1           2  11 RoY-1
 1952 21 NYG NL  34  127   17   30   2  4   4   23   4  1  16  17  .236  .326  .409  102   52   0           1   2
 1954 23 NYG NL 151  565  119  195  33 13  41  110   8  5  66  57  .345  .411  .667  175  377   0   7       2  12 MVP-1,AS
 1955 24 NYG NL 152  580  123  185  18 13  51  127  24  4  79  60  .319  .400  .659  176  382   0   7  13   4  12 MVP-4,AS
 1956 25 NYG NL 152  578  101  171  27  8  36   84  40 10  68  65  .296  .369  .557  146  322   0   3  20   1  16 MVP-17,AS
 1957 26 NYG NL 152  585  112  195  26 20  35   97  38 19  76  62  .333  .407  .626  173  366   0   6  15   1  14 MVP-4,AS
 1958 27 SFG NL 152  600  121  208  33 11  29   96  31  6  78  56  .347  .419  .583  165  350   0   6  12   1  11 MVP-2,AS
 1959 28 SFG NL 151  575  125  180  43  5  34  104  27  4  65  58  .313  .381  .583  155  335   0   6   9   2  11 MVP-6,AS
 1960 29 SFG NL 153  595  107  190  29 12  29  103  25 10  61  70  .319  .381  .555  160  330   0   9  11   4  15 MVP-3,AS
 1961 30 SFG NL 154  572  129  176  32  3  40  123  18  9  81  77  .308  .393  .584  160  334   0   4  15   2  14 MVP-6,AS
 1962 31 SFG NL 162  621  130  189  36  5  49  141  18  2  78  85  .304  .384  .615  166  382   0   3  11   4  19 MVP-2,AS
 1963 32 SFG NL 157  596  115  187  32  7  38  103   8  3  66  83  .314  .380  .582  175  347   0   7   5   2  15 MVP-5,AS
 1964 33 SFG NL 157  578  121  171  21  9  47  111  19  5  82  72  .296  .383  .607  172  351   1   3  13   1  11 MVP-6,AS
 1965 34 SFG NL 157  558  118  177  21  3  52  112   9  4  76  71  .317  .398  .645  185  360   2   2  16   0  11 MVP-1,AS
 1966 35 SFG NL 152  552   99  159  29  4  37  103   5  1  70  81  .288  .368  .556  150  307   1   4  11   2  13 MVP-3,AS
 1967 36 SFG NL 141  486   83  128  22  2  22   70   6  0  51  92  .263  .334  .453  125  220   2   3   7   2  12 AS
 1968 37 SFG NL 148  498   84  144  20  5  23   79  12  6  67  81  .289  .372  .488  157  243   0   6   7   2  13 MVP-13,AS
 1969 38 SFG NL 117  403   64  114  17  3  13   58   6  2  49  71  .283  .362  .437  125  176   0   4   7   3   8 AS
 1970 39 SFG NL 139  478   94  139  15  2  28   83   5  0  79  90  .291  .390  .506  140  242   0   6   3   3   7 AS
 1971 40 SFG NL 136  417   82  113  24  5  18   61  23  3 112 123  .271  .425  .482  160  201   1   4  11   3   8 MVP-19,AS
 1972 41 TOT NL  88  244   35   61  11  1   8   22   4  5  60  48  .250  .400  .402  131   98   4   0   6   1   9 AS
         SFG NL  19   49    8    9   2  0   0    3   3  0  17   5  .184  .394  .224   80   11   1   0   1   0   4
         NYM NL  69  195   27   52   9  1   8   19   1  5  43  43  .267  .402  .446  145   87   3   0   5   1   5
 1973 42 NYM NL  66  209   24   44  10  0   6   25   1  0  27  47  .211  .303  .344   81   72   1   1   0   1   7 AS
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
 22 Seasons        10881      3283    140     1903    103    1526  .302  .384  .557  156       13  91 192  44 251
               2992      2062      523    660      338   1464                            6066

ToughGuy_BlueShirt · Post by **ToughGuy_BlueShirt** » March 26 07, 12:17 pm

One of the greatest matchups ever. I'm going to have to give the slight edge to Williams.

JL21 · Post by **JL21** » March 26 07, 12:24 pm

WARP3, Lifetime/Peak/Seasons over 10

Mays
206.2/13.8/13

Williams
172.0/15.6 (with a 15.1 thrown in for good measure)/10

Williams' peak trumps Mays, though he had worse overall numbers. However, Williams lost 1943-1945 to the war. His '42 WARP3 was 15.1 and his '46 WARP3 was 15.6. Three years right in what was the heart of his career.

Add in the two years he lost in '52 and '53 when he'd been running between a WARP3 of 7 and 10, and really- if the Splinter had not gone to war- he would've likely trumped Mays.

He gets my vote.

jim · Post by **jim** » March 26 07, 12:31 pm

RC21 wrote:WARP3, Lifetime/Peak/Seasons over 10

Mays
206.2/13.8/13

Williams
172.0/15.6 (with a 15.1 thrown in for good measure)/10

Williams' peak trumps Mays, though he had worse overall numbers. However, Williams lost 1943-1945 to the war. His '42 WARP3 was 15.1 and his '46 WARP3 was 15.6. Three years right in what was the heart of his career.

Add in the two years he lost in '52 and '53 when he'd been running between a WARP3 of 7 and 10, and really- if the Splinter had not gone to war- he would've likely trumped Mays.

He gets my vote.

Hey, you stole my routine. I was actually looking at their DT numbers on BP and came up with the exact same numbers and answers that you did.

Also, many feel the WARP numbers tend to overvalue defense. What exactly is a replacement level glove goes the argument.

Williams.

M1IRONMIKE · Post by **M1IRONMIKE** » March 26 07, 1:20 pm

I go with Willie Mays here who also lost 2 years to military service

Mary1966 · Post by **Mary1966** » March 26 07, 2:17 pm

M1IRONMIKE wrote:I go with Willie Mays here who also lost 2 years to military service

Williams also lost time to military service.

ToughGuy_BlueShirt · Post by **ToughGuy_BlueShirt** » March 26 07, 3:08 pm

Mary1966 wrote:
M1IRONMIKE wrote:I go with Willie Mays here who also lost 2 years to military service
Williams also lost time to military service.

He knows, that's why he said Willie Mays ALSO lost 2 years to military service.

Gashouse · Post by **Gashouse** » March 26 07, 4:56 pm

I was watching Ken Burns' baseball this past weekend. The part I was watching was about the 1941 season, so it talked in depth about Williams and hitting .406. Anyway, they made it sound like ol' Teddy Ballgame was a below-avg defender - often distracted in the field, getting caught off guard because he was swinging a phantom bat instead of getting ready for a ball hit his way, etc. Kind of sounds like ManRam.

Teddy was a great hitter - maybe the best ever. But I think Mays was a good hitter, too, and he was a solid defender. I'm voting Mays.

Transmogrified Tiger · Post by **Transmogrified Tiger** » March 26 07, 6:23 pm

M1IRONMIKE wrote:I go with Willie Mays here who also lost 2 years to military service

Which years were those?

Teddy Ballgame needs to win it all.

Jocephus · Post by **Jocephus** » March 26 07, 6:29 pm

Mays was conscripted into the U.S. Army in 1952 - this despite the fact that he was the sole support for his unemployed stepfather and stepbrothers and stepsisters. [6] As a result of the conflict in Korea, he missed part of the 1952 season and all of the 1953 season. This despite the fact that he did not see any combat action and spent most his Army time at Fort Eustis, Virginia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willie_Mays