Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin

[Popeye_Card]

The line item veto is probably a dead concept. I haven't read the case since law school, but the Supreme Court put the smack down, essentially saying it was a violation of separation of powers, giving the executive too much legislative authority.

No doubt it's unconstitutional, I just think there should be some sort of responsible oversight somewhere in the process.

Perhaps it should be a VP duty, as President of the Senate?

Palin has the experience to handle that job.


I don't know about that. It still gives executive control over congress. Maybe the VP or Speaker can force a vote to break a bill into sections, with each section having to pass with majority approval. Then you could force votes on riders seperately from the meat of the legislation. With both parties actively wanting their pork pushed through, you could see some interesting coallitions form AND it would provide good info to the public on how legislators actually vote for and deal with pure pork.

Yeah, I also thought about a small committee (maybe 5 members), which includes the VP as the tie-breaking vote. I thought about majority and minority leaders in the house and senate, but then decided that sorta leaves out any independants, and such a system is a slave to the current two-party system. The reps on the board should be elected somehow, but I don't know a good way of doing that while still having both current parties fairly represented.

[AJ]

I hope the dems throw Liebermans ass out of the senate caucus after the next election (assuming they have enough for a comfortable majority)

Judas anyone?

[Socnorb11]

Shooting down another tangent, what is everyone's thoughts on Joe Lieberman last night? I personally didn't care for it at all. He comes off as a scorned lover. Seems too transparent to actually work.

He certainly didn't present any new viewpoints, and he certainly didn't inspire anybody. All in all, it seemed like a waste of time. Seemed pretty hypocritical of him to give a ringing endorsement for Palin, when he's pretty clearly on the opposite end of the spectrum on virtually every issue.

[ghostrunner]

I hope the dems throw Liebermans ass out of the senate caucus after the next election (assuming they have enough for a comfortable majority)

Judas anyone?

He's in there as an independent now.

[Fat Strat]

Shooting down another tangent, what is everyone's thoughts on Joe Lieberman last night? I personally didn't care for it at all. He comes off as a scorned lover. Seems too transparent to actually work.

I didn't get a chance to watch him, but I have picked up a pretty good idea of what he said. He was already pretty well respected and admired (though from a distance) by conservatives because of his disagreements with the democratic leadership. I don't know what you're meaning specifically by "too transparent to actually work", but I have a hard time seeing the conventions for anything other than what they are - big, happy, rah-rah parties for the parties.

It shows McCain and the parties willingness to reach across the aisle, but I wouldn't think it's something that's going to sway a lot of voters. I suppose there might be a few Leiberman dem's out there who will follow Joe in the ballot box, but that's not exactly a substantial voting block. It's just a small section of the huge moderate block who won't make up their minds until the debates and/or they actually punch their ticket.

[jim]

Because if there’s a poor child out there, that’s my child. If there’s a senior that’s having trouble, that’s my grandparent. If there’s a guy who’s lost his job, that’s my brother. If there’s a woman out there without healthcare, that’s my sister. Those are the values that built this country. Those are the values we are fighting for."[/i]

++ infinity. I'll risk a joeybomb: Its stuff like this (more democratic ideal than republican) that makes me confused why Christians stereotypically vote republican and why liberals tend to stereotypically shy away from Christianity. I mean, this is the Gospel. Do unto others... as you do to the least of these... love your neighbor as yourself (etc etc)...

Have you read Mark Twain's "The War Prayer" before?

[AJ]

I hope the dems throw Liebermans ass out of the senate caucus after the next election (assuming they have enough for a comfortable majority)

Judas anyone?

He's in there as an independent now.

But he is still part of the dems caucus giving them the majority. The dems also let him keep his posts in party leadership and also his seniority.

[ghostrunner]

I hope the dems throw Liebermans ass out of the senate caucus after the next election (assuming they have enough for a comfortable majority)

Judas anyone?

He's in there as an independent now.

But he still part of the dems caucus giving them the majority. The dems also let him keep his posts in party leadership and also his seniority.

Hmm. Didn't realize that.

[sighyoung]

I hope the dems throw Liebermans ass out of the senate caucus after the next election (assuming they have enough for a comfortable majority)

Judas anyone?

He's in there as an independent now.

But he still part of the dems caucus giving them the majority. The dems also let him keep his posts in party leadership and also his seniority.

For now. Not after the '08 elections.

[JCShutout]

I get your point, but I think it's misguided. Yes, there's jobs being created overseas, but they're moving there because they can pay people less there to do the same thing. That's just taking advantage of people, and further exploiting them.

Yes, businesses are outsourcing these jobs to foreign countries because they can pay the workers a lower wage for the same work. That's taking advantage of the global marketplace.

As far as "exploiting" those workers, one would have to know more than the simple fact that they make less than an American worker would make to do the same work. Things like cost of living and whatnot.

I'm not saying "go sweatshops!" or anything like that, but if foreign workers are making more than they would otherwise to do these jobs, and the businesses are paying less than it would cost to pay a domestic worker for the equivalent work, then both sides benefit.

/Devil's Advocate

I don't think so. The UN and even the worldbank does a lot of studies on what a family of four would need to survive (basic necessities which exclude travel expense, clothing expense, healthcare or education expenses). In many of these nations (or atleast the latin american ones I've looked at), the vast majority of the population still don't make enough (or barely do) to even cover that.

Also take into account that if we own the companies that employ most of the people in a nation, the profits don't go into that nation, they go to us.