Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin

[cardinalkarp]

I'm not trying to J-bomb the forum or even pick a fight, but this post you wrote is something I've seen written by conservatives many times over in the past five years or so. What I'm wondering is...how many people like this -- people who are unemployed and do not actively seek any sort of employment for long periods of time -- are in the United States?

I'm thinking there are plenty.

And to Richie, no there's really no way to distinguish between the dead beats and one's that are just down on they're luck. But typically the one's that are down on their luck are looking for jobs and if they are desperate enough could find work (although its not going to be something they WANT to do). They're are jobs everywhere, people just don't want to work full time in fast food or at a gas station, they would rather be unemployed.

I know I'm not going to share opinions on this subject w/ many on the board because it does lean so far left but that's ok, I'm cool w/ that.

[Arthur Dent]

I think it's inevitable that we'll have to socialize that cost.

We already socialize the cost. That's the function of health insurance -- the healthy pay for the sick. It's just done in a really inefficient (expensive) and unfair way.

[AWvsCBsteeeerike3]

I'm not trying to J-bomb the forum or even pick a fight, but this post you wrote is something I've seen written by conservatives many times over in the past five years or so. What I'm wondering is...how many people like this -- people who are unemployed and do not actively seek any sort of employment for long periods of time -- are in the United States?

I'm thinking there are plenty.

And to Richie, no there's really no way to distinguish between the dead beats and one's that are just down on they're luck. But typically the one's that are down on their luck are looking for jobs and if they are desperate enough could find work (although its not going to be something they WANT to do). They're are jobs everywhere, people just don't want to work full time in fast food or at a gas station, they would rather be unemployed.

I know I'm not going to share opinions on this subject w/ many on the board because it does lean so far left but that's ok, I'm cool w/ that.

What Pelosi wants to do:

Pelosi said a stimulus package would create jobs by investing in public works, increasing food stamps benefits and extending unemployment insurance for the long-term jobless

[Popeye_Card]

I'm thinking there are plenty.

Define "plenty" though. The unemployment rate is generally around 5%. What percentage of that number falls into the category of sitting around on their lazy bum, glad to go to the doctor just because it's free?

What I'm getting at is if it ends up being even as much as 1% of the total population, is it that big of deal that there's 1% "waste" in the system?

[InvincibleCakeEater]

I have had only one job that offered health insurance. Lots and lots of businesses simply don't offer it or offer it only to management or workers on salary.

[Fat Strat]

I'm not trying to J-bomb the forum or even pick a fight, but this post you wrote is something I've seen written by conservatives many times over in the past five years or so. What I'm wondering is...how many people like this -- people who are unemployed and do not actively seek any sort of employment for long periods of time -- are in the United States?

I don't know about that, but I have a problem with people who do have incomes and sometimes decent ones, but they don't feel like they can afford to get insurance. I'll readily admit that insurance is expensive, but at some point people have to prioritize and health insurance needs to be a higher priority than some have made it. I have a friend who's 40'ish. He's got a decent job that he really loves, but doesn't pay him much. His wife also works, although I'm sure she doesn't make much. They've picked their jobs becuase of what he wants to do and because of the flexibility that his wife's job offers her.

They've looked into insurance and have never gotten it, largely becuase they don't feel like they can afford it. I know that it would be a stretch for them, and they don't live extravagantly. At the same time, I'm sure that the base salaries for my wife and I aren't that much more AND we have two kids in daycare AND a nicer house, nicer cars, nicer clothes, etc. AND we can afford pretty good insurance (provided through my wife's job).

My point is that I think most people with decent employment can afford insurance as it is (which is pretty ridiculous). Some have chosen not to, believing they can't afford it, either because they're mismanaging their income and expenses right now OR they've gotten themselves into some financial troubles in the past and are paying the price for it now. YET, they don't even consider getting a smaller home, getting a second job, dropping down to one car, or making other lifestyle changes that would give them the financial flexibility they need to make room for insurance.

I don't really know what the best solution is for this situation, but I think that Brokaw's question last night about sacrifice touches on it. As a culture, we're going to have to make sacrifices and live more frugally, while also pushing for reform of the system.

[G. Keenan]

I think it's inevitable that we'll have to socialize that cost.

We already socialize the cost. That's the function of health insurance -- the healthy pay for the sick. It's just done in a really inefficient (expensive) and unfair way.

Yeah, technically, but the inefficiencies are becoming so great that it's a joke.

[cardinalkarp]

I have had only one job that offered health insurance. Lots and lots of businesses simply don't offer it or offer it only to management or workers on salary.

In that case if you were worried about getting sick wouldn't you just purchase insurance from an outside source?

Is not doing that a better option than milking the system, it is for alot of people. That's what I don't think is fair.

ICE, I'm not talking about you in particular. When I was younger I didn't worry about health insurance either because I didn't really worry about getting sick. But if something were to have happened I would've been screwed, that's life I guess.

[cardinalkarp]

I'm not trying to J-bomb the forum or even pick a fight, but this post you wrote is something I've seen written by conservatives many times over in the past five years or so. What I'm wondering is...how many people like this -- people who are unemployed and do not actively seek any sort of employment for long periods of time -- are in the United States?

I don't know about that, but I have a problem with people who do have incomes and sometimes decent ones, but they don't feel like they can afford to get insurance. I'll readily admit that insurance is expensive, but at some point people have to prioritize and health insurance needs to be a higher priority than some have made it. I have a friend who's 40'ish. He's got a decent job that he really loves, but doesn't pay him much. His wife also works, although I'm sure she doesn't make much. They've picked their jobs becuase of what he wants to do and because of the flexibility that his wife's job offers her.

They've looked into insurance and have never gotten it, largely becuase they don't feel like they can afford it. I know that it would be a stretch for them, and they don't live extravagantly. At the same time, I'm sure that the base salaries for my wife and I aren't that much more AND we have two kids in daycare AND a nicer house, nicer cars, nicer clothes, etc. AND we can afford pretty good insurance (provided through my wife's job).

My point is that I think most people with decent employment can afford insurance in the program as it is. Some have chosen not to, believing they can't afford it, either because they're mismanaging their income and expenses right now OR they've gotten themselves into some financial troubles in the past and are paying the price for it now. YET, they don't even consider getting a smaller home, getting a second job, dropping down to one car, or making other lifestyle changes that would give them the financial flexibility they need to make room for insurance.

I don't really know what the best solution is for this situation, but I think that Brokaw's question last night about sacrifice touches on it. As a culture, we're going to have to make sacrifices and live more frugally, while also pushing for reform of the system.

This was said much better than what I could have done and is pretty much my point as well.

[Popeye_Card]

I don't really know what the best solution is for this situation, but I think that Brokaw's question last night about sacrifice touches on it. As a culture, we're going to have to make sacrifices and live more frugally, while also pushing for reform of the system.

How about the insurance companies themselves sacrifice a bit? My guess is that they're remarkably profitable.

It's similar to "the high cost of college education" when colleges have multi-billion dollar endowments that only grow every year, while tuition rates skyrocket.

EDIT: My point is that I don't think it's necessarily the government's job to pay for these things. But there's folks out there making big bucks off of the current system, while some suffer because of the system.