So, what changes do we need to make for next year?

[cpebbles]

the obvious solution is to raise payroll to $300 million and put together a team with 25 allstars. n

I disagree. I think the best option will be to post strawmen arguments that nobody has proposed and piss all over everybody's intelligent discussion. Everybody else good with this?

No. Anytime it is encouraged for other forum members to pile on and mock a forum member, I am not good with that.

Either just tell them you disagree or let the post go by without comment and continue the discussion.

Yeah, because it's not as if he has been passive-aggressively picking this fight almost every time he has posted here for the past few years.

[a_smith]

DeRosa
Holliday
Figgins
Lackey
T. Hudson
Valverde
Wagner
O. Hudson


Call it an offseason

Why wouldn't we also sign Abreu so that we can put Luddy on the bench and have him play against lefties?

Because Luddy has a reverse platoon split and hits righties better than lefties. He hits lefties to a tune of 740 ops

if you are going to do that, just keep Luddy as they were basically the same player last year ops+ of 115 to 104
Luddy plays better D and It would seem reasonable to think that he could improve on his 104 OPS+ this year.

[a_smith]

Sign Abreu?!?! Be realistic!

The 'pen is going to be intriguing for me. Obviously a ton of slots are filled (Reyes, Miller, Franklin, McClellan, probably Motte and/or Hawksworth), and Boggs and Thompson can slap-fight over the last slot if Boggs isn't pressed into duty driving me batpoop bonkers as the #5 starter. But Samuel and Sanchez might just crash that bullpen party.

I hope Sanchez crashes that party like Princess Di.

didnt she crash a wall? Or was it that she was having a party in the car when she crashed?

[phins]

DeRosa
Holliday
Figgins
Lackey
T. Hudson
Valverde
Wagner
O. Hudson


Call it an offseason

Why wouldn't we also sign Abreu so that we can put Luddy on the bench and have him play against lefties?

Because Luddy has a reverse platoon split and hits righties better than lefties. He hits lefties to a tune of 740 ops

if you are going to do that, just keep Luddy as they were basically the same player last year ops+ of 115 to 104
Luddy plays better D and It would seem reasonable to think that he could improve on his 104 OPS+ this year.

Oy.

[JL21]

Sign Abreu?!?! Be realistic!

The 'pen is going to be intriguing for me. Obviously a ton of slots are filled (Reyes, Miller, Franklin, McClellan, probably Motte and/or Hawksworth), and Boggs and Thompson can slap-fight over the last slot if Boggs isn't pressed into duty driving me batpoop bonkers as the #5 starter. But Samuel and Sanchez might just crash that bullpen party.

I hope Sanchez crashes that party like Princess Di.

It's nice to have a little depth. Out of the 2009 group that returns for 2010, you've got to know that some of them aren't going to be as productive (with of course Franklin being the most obvious candidate).

[Eephus Speed]

I want Franklin to fail.

Sorry, but somebody needed to give JModene a reason to keep posting following the beating he's taking from all you big meanies.

[Eephus Speed]

While it's true that they give more to the bench than other teams, this year is something of an outlier. 3B, SS, and LF were all open competitions until at least mid-June for SS and until the end of July for 3B and LF (when DeRosa got off the DL and they acquired Holliday). 3/8 of the lineup either had legit candidates that were hurt (Glaus), underperforming their career marks (Ankiel, K. Greene, Duncan), or shouldn't be starting in the first place (Thurston, Barden, T. Greene).

Throw in the fact that for most of the season, your 2B needed a defensive replacement at the end of games; the 2B and CF had really ugly platoon splits v. LHP's; and that every team is going to have a backup catcher with 100-200 PA's; and it's easy to see how it happened.

I'd be very curious to see the breakdown you use above, but only taking it from 7/26 until the end of the year. We all know TLR loves playing his bench players and giving his regulars a lot of breathers, but I'd contend that it was much, much, much more accentuated this year. It's not like he was sitting better players to give Ankiel, Duncan, Thurston, Barden, or either of the Greenes more playing time.

This.

And, yet, we won more than 90 games.

[Richie Allen]

The other complaint, the one I was addressing, is the number of plate appearances by bench guys. In my opinion, this isn't much up for debate. It appears to be a pretty real fact that the Cardinals give many more plate appearances to backups than most teams and far more than the other 3 NL post season teams. The Dodgers pretty much had 8 regulars other than Manny missing all of those games. Without his being out, there likely would have been far fewer bench ABs. From the top (PA by bench players) you've got Jaun Pierre with 425, then down to 204, 121, 107 and then down to double digits. With the Phillies, top bench guy got only 169, then 130, 129, 118, 104 and 104. The Rockies only have 4 bench guys with more than 69 PA, once regular Atkins with 399, 393 from lifetime 100 OPS+ Spilborghs, 317 from 122 OPS+ Gonzalez and 242 from somewhat regular catcher Torrealba. The Cardinals, as I mentioned before (with OPS+ in parenthesis) 404 (76), 307 (72), 304 (83), 193 (63), 170 (107), 116 (57), 114 (75) and 112 (63).

While it's true that they give more to the bench than other teams, this year is something of an outlier. 3B, SS, and LF were all open competitions until at least mid-June for SS and until the end of July for 3B and LF (when DeRosa got off the DL and they acquired Holliday). 3/8 of the lineup either had legit candidates that were hurt (Glaus), underperforming their career marks (Ankiel, K. Greene, Duncan), or shouldn't be starting in the first place (Thurston, Barden, T. Greene).

Throw in the fact that for most of the season, your 2B needed a defensive replacement at the end of games; the 2B and CF had really ugly platoon splits v. LHP's; and that every team is going to have a backup catcher with 100-200 PA's; and it's easy to see how it happened.

I'd be very curious to see the breakdown you use above, but only taking it from 7/26 until the end of the year. We all know TLR loves playing his bench players and giving his regulars a lot of breathers, but I'd contend that it was much, much, much more accentuated this year. It's not like he was sitting better players to give Ankiel, Duncan, Thurston, Barden, or either of the Greenes more playing time.

The only problem with the argument that this year it's accentuated is that it's not. Go to Baseball Reference and do a quick glance at the Cardinals numbers every year. There isn't a year I found, looking at the past 6 or 7 years, that there weren't at least 7 or 8 guys with more than 100 PA and almost always a couple with 300 to 400. Tony admits he does this. It's part of his strategy to keep the bench fresh. I'm saying it might not be the best strategy if the bench is awful, which it pretty much was this year.

[Swingingbunt]

The only problem with the argument that this year it's accentuated is that it's not. Go to Baseball Reference and do a quick glance at the Cardinals numbers every year. There isn't a year I found, looking at the past 6 or 7 years, that there weren't at least 7 or 8 guys with more than 100 PA and almost always a couple with 300 to 400. Tony admits he does this. It's part of his strategy to keep the bench fresh. I'm saying it might not be the best strategy if the bench is awful, which it pretty much was this year.

That begs the question, then...should Tony change his style for the team Mo gives him, or does Mo need make upgrading the bench a priority? My feeling is that Tony needs to change his style a bit. If we re-sign Holliday and extend Pujols, there won't be a whole lot of extra money for an experienced bench.

[greenback44]

La Russa was looking for starters at three or four positions in the first half, and he didn't have obvious candidates. I think it's understandable that he was sorting through the crap, especially since all the while he was demanding help from the front office. Once he got that help in the second half, he pretty much went with ten guys: Molina, Pujols, Schumaker/Lugo, Ryan, DeRosa, Holliday, Rasmus/Ankiel, Ludwick. Before anyone complains that Ankiel sucked, please note that he had a 725 OPS in the second half compared to a 592 OPS for Rasmus (and I believe Rasmus's post-ASB UZR was pretty much zero -- did anyone notice Rasmus sucked that badly with the stick in the second half?). Anyway, LaRue and Thurston led the rest with 51 plate appearances, only starting 13 games and 6 games respectively, and of course a good chunk of LaRue's starts were in late September when Molina was ailing.

By La Russa standards those look like tiny numbers for almost a half-season.