Update: HOLLIDAY A CARD 7yr/120 million, p178

[JL21]

I liked the Bay part. But then I read the part in bold font. Please no Nady.

I'm with you on Nady but let me play devil's advocate for a second. Is there a rock-bottom, below-market price for him where it'd be worth taking the gamble?

[Socnorb11]

Cardinals GM John Mozeliak indicated Tuesday that the Cardinals will not purse outfielder Jason Bay, even if they miss out on Matt Holliday.
"We'll see how the market develops," Mozeliak said. "Is (Bay) a possibility? Sure. But right now it's fair to say he's not one of our top priorities." The Cardinals are reportedly intrigued by free agent Xavier Nadyand would rather spend major cash on bolstering their infield and starting rotation if Matt Holliday moves on. Bay is drawing heavy interest from the Red Sox and Mets.
Source: St. Louis Post-Dispatch
Related: Cardinals

Good.

I liked the Bay part. But then I read the part in bold font. Please no Nady.

Bolstering the infield? Not through free agency, I hope.

Yeah..... I should have elaborated. I like the Bay part, but not the Nady part.

[Eephus Speed]

I liked the Bay part. But then I read the part in bold font. Please no Nady.

I'm with you on Nady but let me play devil's advocate for a second. Is there a rock-bottom, below-market price for him where it'd be worth taking the gamble?

Like a Spring Training invitation? I'm kidding...sort of. I suppose we could throw a million bucks his way (with some incentives). He has hit lefties well in his career. But Nady wasn't a good fielder even before having his second TJ surgery this year.

[cpebbles]

Not that I disagree- Bay's defensive metrics place him as one of the worst LFers in the game with the glove. But that type of thing isn't stopping the Red Sox from being the favorite to sign him. And the Sox do quantitative analysis as well as anyone out there. I think it's a situation where Strauss is reading more into Mo's comments than there is to read into it.

I'm actually going to be a little surprised if the Red Sox do sign him. Strikes me as misdirection and I think they'll be a "surprise" major player for Holliday.

[Socnorb11]

Remember last year at this time, when we didn't know where The Cards would find playing time for all of the outfielders (Rasmus, Duncan, Ankiel, Schumaker, Ludwick, Daryl Jones........).

Next thing you know, they're trading their best prospect for.......... an outfielder. And we're wondering if we should sign Xavier Nady.

My, how quickly things change.

[ghostrunner]

I'm guessing the Red Sox as well if we don't get him. Makes too much sense for them.

I seriously hope we don't go into next year depending/counting on players like Allen Craig and/or David Freese. The Holliday trade gave me a certain impression of DeWitt and Mo, and I was as excited as I've been since 2005. If we go back to the low hanging fruit days or another quasi-youth movement that's going to be a huge disappointment. We have some decent, possibly good players in the minors. It's fun to follow these guys, but what are the odds one or more of them actually becomes a solid contributor? I'm not even sure about Rasmus at the moment.

Right now, we're looking at this:

Schumaker
Rasmus
Pujols
Ludwick
Molina
Freese
Ryan
Jay/Craig/Mather

That's a [expletive] lineup with our payroll, IMO.

[Cronos]

Right now, we're looking at this:

Schumaker
Rasmus
Pujols
Ludwick
Molina
Freese
Ryan
Jay/Craig/Mather

That's a [expletive] lineup with our payroll, IMO.

With most of our payroll invested into starting pitching(smartly and correctly apart from Lohse, IMO) is it really that terrible?

And this is assuming nothing changes in the lineup between now and April. I imagine someone will be signed, be it DeRosa, or whatever. If it can't be Holliday then I don't think it will represent too much of an upgrade over what we might have in Freese and the flotsam and jetsam remaining.

[ghostrunner]

Right now, we're looking at this:

Schumaker
Rasmus
Pujols
Ludwick
Molina
Freese
Ryan
Jay/Craig/Mather

That's a [expletive] lineup with our payroll, IMO.

With most of our payroll invested into starting pitching(smartly and correctly apart from Lohse, IMO) is it really that terrible?

And this is assuming nothing changes in the lineup between now and April. I imagine someone will be signed, be it DeRosa, or whatever. If it can't be Holliday then I don't think it will represent too much of an upgrade over what we might have in Freese and the flotsam and jetsam remaining.

I don't agree that it's where the money should go, but I don't think that's what we're doing. What starting pitchers are we paying big money to aside from Carpenter and Lohse? I think Wainwright made $4 mil last year. Pineiro is gone.

But yeah, that lineup looks to me like the one right before DeRosa and Holliday came on board.

[Cronos]

But yeah, that lineup looks to me like the one right before DeRosa and Holliday came on board.

Troubling thing is, the offense didn't change a whole lot after they did come aboard. Holliday helped in the stretch, sure, but DeRosa was a serious disappointment.

[Eephus Speed]

It's possible that we could win ~90 games without Holliday. I think it'd help our chances if we signed Cameron or DeRosa, someone more proven than Craig/Jay/Mather. And Smoltz or Harden, plus maybe Pavano/Sheets.

Of course, we would need some good luck/health. Carpenter and Wainwright each making 30+ starts, another starter having a surprisingly strong season, Freese being average or better, Rasmus improving, etc.