Out on a limb with Chris Duncan

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Do you want to bet with or against Steverino?

I'll take that bet, Steverino's all wet
57
86%
I'll hold onto my sixpence, Steverino's stats beat my common sense
9
14%
 
Total votes: 66

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HugeCardfan
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Post by HugeCardfan »

skmsw wrote: As a mostly unrelated aside, I suppose a lot of folks just seeing my posts for the first time this year probably think I come down on the negative side of just about everything. Not so.

Those who were around in 2003-04 might recall a long string of wildly "optimistic" views and projections -- unpopularly so, since at the time the broad consensus was that we were a third place team and I was generally thought of as being polyanish, just liking everything and never seeing a downside (which of course was just as inaccurate as those who might now think I never see any upside).

I nailed Carpenter's 2004 season, I projected the 2004 team's runs scored within 5 runs and the runs allowed within around 15. I advised against getting down on Haren just because of the disasterous emergency start, was opposed to sending him back down, and felt that he would be a strong contributor. I expected Tavarez and Suppan to be successful for us. I saw Lankford as a useful addition.

Of course, Bo Hart had an OPS close to 900 after a full month and some 115 AB, and I won a LOT of bets on that, so all the hallmark Steverino ingredients were there back then too. And of course just to round out the picture I was wrong sometimes too (I didn't think Womack belonged on a major league roster, let alone in a starting lineup, and DEFINITELY not batting leadoff).

I use all the same methods, take all the same approaches, and see the same balance now as then; it's not me who is different, it is the team (we've gotten notably worse, so my projections are less optimistic) and the mainstream fans (the team has gone from underestimated to overestimated, so I'm STILL outside the mainstream, but in the opposite direction).
I certainly don't think that your posts are overly pessimistic. In fact your projection of Renteria in Boston was way too optimistic. You also poo pooed my suggestion that he couldn't handle the fish bowl in Fenway. Each time he went on one of his mini hitting streaks you proclaimed that the drought was over. And 30 errors. (#-o) #-o His stay in Boston was such a disaster Boston paid to give him away for a prospect.

Now you were too pessimistic about Eck. You said we were in trouble up the middle with Grudz and Eck yet we had more DP's last year than the year before, by a wide margin. You were also surprised that Eck hit as well and that his OBP was as good as it was.

I was too optimistic about Miles. I figured he'd hit the ball a bit better than he has. I also figured he would do better with the glove. I guess when we go out on a limb and try to project what will happen, we win some and lose some. You missed Duncan. Pretty sure about that.
Last edited by HugeCardfan on August 20 06, 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

MaskedMan
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Post by MaskedMan »

It depends on who you are REALLY rooting for as a home team, HUGE...

nice objective analysis tho

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fanforever
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Post by fanforever »

Chris Duncan hit another homer today (#14) on a fly ball to right field.

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Post by Fat Strat »

but the larger problem with your analysis, is that you can only see things thru metrics and statistics to justify your observations and not thru any VISUAL observations...as in the at bats I have recounted in my position of defending Dunc...It's like growing up in a small town (as I did in MO, and not wanting to be pigeon-holed into what you are just because of what you were at THAT moment when you were judged) Sometimes you CAN observe (especially not thru stats, which have NO correlation to what is being observed, overtly, and often is just a justification for a particular position, until you are cornered into making a prediction which will have no value based on those biased predictions...DUNCAN!) something that may not be representative of what has happened in the past, because there is a tangent that cannot be totally quantifyed by past performances called "experience" and making the correct adjustments to what the opposition is trying to accomplish and knowing how to use their strategies against them. (Risk anyone?)
I think it should be well noted that no one outside the Cardinals organization thought anything of Chris Duncan even coming into this season. Scouts who use only their observations (no stats) have all concluded that Duncan wasn't a legitimate major league prospect. He's never been ranked highly in our own system. Almost no one, except LaRussa, Mo, Deacon Duncan, and the traveling secretary thought he had a chance.

No one else did.

And, if you read Steve carefully (or get to know him a little in the flashchat) you'll hear him talk about his observations and opinions more than most people realize.
Last edited by Fat Strat on August 20 06, 1:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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HugeCardfan
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Post by HugeCardfan »

Fat_Strat wrote:I think it should be well noted that no one outside the Cardinals organization thought anything of Chris Duncan even coming into this season. Scouts who use only their observations (no stats) have all concluded that Duncan wasn't a legitimate major league prospect. He's never been ranked highly in our own system. Almost everyone, except LaRussa, Mo, Deacon Duncan, and others thought he had a chance.

No one else did.

And, if you read Steve carefully (or get to know him a little in the flashchat) you'll hear him talk about his observations and opinions more than most people realize.
I think your comments are fair. Steve is a great guy and very bright. But, like most of us, he remembers his successes better than he does his failures. Still his insights, while often controversial, are always interesting. =D>

I'm just waiting for the day that they walk Duncan in order to face Pujols. Oh wait, they just did that and Albert hit into a DP. :cry:

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Post by Fat Strat »

I think your comments are fair. Steve is a great guy and very bright. But, like most of us, he remembers his successes better than he does his failures. Still his insights, while often controversial, are always interesting.

I'm just waiting for the day that they walk Duncan in order to face Pujols. Oh wait, they just did that and Albert hit into a DP.
We've gone from having a lineup full of holes to one of the better offenses in the league in a matter of days. Amazing.

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Post by Jocephus »

HugeCardfan wrote:
Fat_Strat wrote:I think it should be well noted that no one outside the Cardinals organization thought anything of Chris Duncan even coming into this season. Scouts who use only their observations (no stats) have all concluded that Duncan wasn't a legitimate major league prospect. He's never been ranked highly in our own system. Almost everyone, except LaRussa, Mo, Deacon Duncan, and others thought he had a chance.

No one else did.

And, if you read Steve carefully (or get to know him a little in the flashchat) you'll hear him talk about his observations and opinions more than most people realize.
I think your comments are fair. Steve is a great guy and very bright. But, like most of us, he remembers his successes better than he does his failures. Still his insights, while often controversial, are always interesting. =D>

I'm just waiting for the day that they walk Duncan in order to face Pujols. Oh wait, they just did that and Albert hit into a DP. :cry:
:lol:

Fat Strat
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Post by Fat Strat »

The Jury is still out on that (in regards to one othe better offenses in the league). But I can't help but think that the injury to Eck may be a blessing in some sort of eerie way. In regards to Steve, I'd trust him more than the drival written by the cardinal writers at the PD. Steve at least makes sense 98% of the time
Definitely true on the drivel.

The lineup I think is one of the best when everyone's healthy. Not THE best, but certainly in the top 5. We should be bakc where we belong.

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Post by MaskedMan »

If no one thought Duncan had a chance to develop into something why did they "waste" a #1 pick on him???? They shoulda saved that pick because no one else woulda picked him and we could have used that for a pitcher or future SS...why waste the #1 pick (really extra #1) on someone you knew would never develop into major league level talent?

You really believe that...?

BTW, I enjoy Steves comments as much, if not more, than the next guy and agree during my daytime sober hours that he seems to be a great guy with an interesting perspective to bring to the forum. I believe we have been agreeing and disagreeing on and off for around 3 years now.

No offence Steve. We usually disagree in a more civil fashion than I have conducted in my chat of late and apologize.

Fat Strat
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Post by Fat Strat »

If no one thought Duncan had a chance to develop into something why did they "waste" a #1 pick on him???? They shoulda saved that pick because no one else woulda picked him and we could have used that for a pitcher or future SS...why waste the #1 pick (really extra #1) on someone you knew would never develop into major league level talent?
I've been saying that no one outside of the Cardinals organization thought anything of him. The only ones who believed in him were the Cardinals. That's why they picked him.

As recently as this offseason, Duncan wasn't ranked among our top 10 prospects. That's not saying much for the only power hitter in our system last year not named Ankiel.

He's beating the odds. That's what this thread is all about.

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