Andy Van Slyke on Duncan

tangotiger · Post by **tangotiger** » March 2 07, 9:55 am

Hardcore Cards Fans think that Duncan is the worst fielding LF in the league:
http://www.tangotiger.net/scouting/pos2006_LF.html

My money is on the fans and Van Slyke.

Popeye_Card · Post by **Popeye_Card** » March 2 07, 10:08 am

tangotiger wrote:Hardcore Cards Fans think that Duncan is the worst fielding LF in the league:
http://www.tangotiger.net/scouting/pos2006_LF.html

My money is on the fans and Van Slyke.

I agree with most of those fans, except that I would rate his instincts and first step lower, and his speed and arm strength a tick higher.

I would still rate him as the worst OF in baseball though, no matter what.

Side note: I think Juan and Taguchi got short-changed a bit by the Cardinal fans in that exercise, but I know I'm in the minority on Juan E.

--P--

JL21 · Post by **JL21** » March 2 07, 10:19 am

I thoroughly appreciate the fact that TLR wants to protect his players and show that he's got their back.... but at some point, the overreactions to the Baby Deacon's defensive prowess are going to do more mental harm than good. Perhaps.*

*I claim no knowledge of how the Baby Deacon will feel mentally or emotionally after repeated comments from TLR about his fielding.

Jocephus · Post by **Jocephus** » March 2 07, 10:24 am

what people need to realize is that...

chris duncan is the greatest defensive outfielder the game has seen in the past 50 years. plus the fact that he's the greatest offensive outfielder the game has seen in the past 50 years. he is the greatest outfielder in the past 100 years. let them talk the talk. we know whats true.

Popeye_Card · Post by **Popeye_Card** » March 2 07, 10:26 am

RC21 wrote:
*I claim no knowledge of how the Baby Deacon will feel mentally or emotionally after repeated comments from TLR about his fielding.

We are talking about the guy who posed with the World Series trophy as his schlong. He doesn't seem to be TOO mentaly or emotionaly unstable. Or does he?

--P--

skmsw · Post by **skmsw** » March 2 07, 10:29 am

I agree with most of those fans, except that I would rate his instincts and first step lower, and his speed and arm strength a tick higher.

Agreed. He's fairly quick for such a big guy, and his arm is not all that bad.

Problem is, the instincts and reaction time (first step), judgment of the ball in flight (missing ones he gets to), etc are not things that are often changed dramatically as a result of experience or coaching. Footwork? Maybe. Release point throwing the ball? Sure. Positioning? Situational adjustments? Could be. But Duncan's defensive liabilities seem to be mostly around the things that are in the wiring and don't change a lot. I'm skeptical he is going to improve very much.

Socnorb11 · Post by **Socnorb11** » March 2 07, 10:37 am

I wonder how Van Slyke feels about his team getting bopped in the World Series by a team that has a left-fielder that can't catch the ball.

Van Slyke needs to worry about the issues on his own team.

I agree that Duncan probably will never be better than average defensively, but do you remember an instance of a bad defensive left-fielder costing a team a world championship, a playoff berth, or a pennant?

Popeye_Card · Post by **Popeye_Card** » March 2 07, 10:37 am

skmsw wrote:
I agree with most of those fans, except that I would rate his instincts and first step lower, and his speed and arm strength a tick higher.
Agreed. He's fairly quick for such a big guy, and his arm is not all that bad.

Problem is, the instincts and reaction time (first step), judgment of the ball in flight (missing ones he gets to), etc are not things that are often changed dramatically as a result of experience or coaching. Footwork? Maybe. Release point throwing the ball? Sure. Positioning? Situational adjustments? Could be. But Duncan's defensive liabilities seem to be mostly around the things that are in the wiring and don't change a lot. I'm skeptical he is going to improve very much.

Agreed on all points.

Meanwhile, the guy in RF that everyone thinks is so fundamentally bad does posses (IMO) the raw skills to field at an elite level, and probably could improve by leaps and bounds by spending some time with a guy like Walker.

--P--

Popeye_Card · Post by **Popeye_Card** » March 2 07, 10:42 am

Socnorb11 wrote:
I agree that Duncan probably will never be better than average defensively, but do you remember an instance of a bad defensive left-fielder costing a team a world championship, a playoff berth, or a pennant?

I remember a great defensive CF possibly costing a team a World Championship (Flood in '68).

I also remember Duncan doing everything he could to cost the Cardinals the World Series last year. His gaffes in Game 5 almost cost the Cardinals that game, and I wouldn't have felt so comfortable heading back to Detroit having to win 1 of 2 games there.

Duncan's bad glove could cost the Cardinals 20 runs or more this season. Depending on when those runs are allowed, they COULD cost the Cardinals a game or two or four. In a NL Central race that looks to be pretty tight, that could spell the difference. His bat is an asset, but I really feel that the defensive liability keeps him on a razor thin edge of being more valuable than other options on the roster (Wilson, J-Rod, etc.).

--P--

greenback44 · Post by **greenback44** » March 2 07, 10:43 am

Socnorb11 wrote:I agree that Duncan probably will never be better than average defensively, but do you remember an instance of a bad defensive left-fielder costing a team a world championship, a playoff berth, or a pennant?

Bonds wasn't a bad LF, but if his arm hadn't been so darn weak, then Sid Bream is out by a mile.