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Posted: April 8 07, 9:26 pm
by stlmark
vinsanity wrote:stlmark wrote:vinsanity wrote:Why has he suddenly got so hittable? Well not suddenly, just shortly after Game 5 of the 2005 NLCS.
Did Pujols really shake him that bad?
It really is crazy. I remember him being so dominant in the 2004 postseason and then all of 2005 until the Pujols blast in game 5.
Exactly. It was a funny joke at the beginning of last year. It was like hahaha funny funny, but I never really believed it. Now I wonder if it isn't true.
I actually feel bad for the guy even though he plays for a rival. Maybe it's the respect the Astros have always shown. I would never have them same feelings for anyone on the Cubs.
Posted: April 9 07, 5:30 am
by sept79
Still wouldn't mind seeing him in Cardinal Red--het hit 97 on the Houston radar. D Duncan could probably get him back on track.
Posted: April 9 07, 6:07 am
by obucard
sept79 wrote:Still wouldn't mind seeing him in Cardinal Red--het hit 97 on the Houston radar. D Duncan could probably get him back on track.
He could probably get back on track just knowing he's on Pujols' team.
Posted: April 9 07, 7:34 am
by Swatcat27
obucard wrote:sept79 wrote:Still wouldn't mind seeing him in Cardinal Red--het hit 97 on the Houston radar. D Duncan could probably get him back on track.
He could probably get back on track just knowing he's on Pujols' team.
Posted: April 9 07, 7:37 am
by jagtrader
I take no joy in Lidge's struggles. The guy was flat-out amazing two years ago and it was fun to watch him pitch.
Posted: April 9 07, 8:24 am
by JohnnyJay
BW23 wrote:I still say his defense let him down, though. Granted, he didn't help himself after the error. But Pujols' ball should have ended the inning. Or at least should have given them two outs.
I agree. But still, Rolen was 0-10 against him with 7 K's. And he laid a big fat pitch down the middle to him. Something isn't right with Lidge.
Posted: April 9 07, 8:52 am
by Laodocus8
vinsanity wrote:Why has he suddenly got so hittable? Well not suddenly, just shortly after Game 5 of the 2005 NLCS.
Did Pujols really shake him that bad?
I didn't see this particular game, but I've heard analysis from people far smarter than me about Lidge's troubles. Apparently, if he has no control over his slider, hitters can just take that pitch and wait for a fastball over the plate (and I've heard Lidge has lost velocity on his fastball, making it far more hittable).
Posted: April 9 07, 9:09 am
by brats&beer
Never mind the fact that closing is one of the hardest positions to be consistently dominant at for more than a few years. Very few pitchers make it as a career closer (Izzy and Rivera come to mind and I am sure there are several others). They are few and far between. Most closers have one to two years of dominant performance and then something like what Pujols did to Lidge happens. Take for instance this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Wohlers
Wohlers' success would not last forever. In Game 4 of the 1996 World Series against the New York Yankees, Wohlers gave up a stunning 3-run home run to Jim Leyritz that tied the game 6-6. After this, the momentum of the Series shifted and the Yankees won it in six games. Many observe that Wohlers was never the same after that. In 1998, he seemed to lose all ability to control his pitches. He spent part of the season at AAA Richmond, but still finished the season with a major league earned run average of 10.18. His control problems were dramatic. In 20-1/3 major league innings, Wohlers walked 33 batters. After being sent down to AAA, Wohlers walked 36 batters in only 12-1/3 innings. His symptoms were a prime example of what is commonly known as Steve Blass disease - a psychological block which manifests itself when baseball players overthink the act of throwing a baseball and consequently become unable to pitch with any sort of control.
There are many others, but once your confidence is shaken like that it is hard to get it back. Think about what happened to Ankiel.
My point is Lidge has faired better than most, but he'll never be the same as he was before the Pujols effect.
Posted: April 9 07, 9:36 am
by heyzeus
Lidge has no command. He's only lost a few mph off his fastball, and when his slider is thrown for a strike, it's still a very nasty pitch (see: Albert swinging right through it twice before hitting a soft grounder that went for a costly error). The problem is, Lidge doesn't throw that slider for strikes very often, batters lay off it now, and his fastball is flatter and poorly located in the high heart of the strike zone. Yadier and Rolen both crushed meaty pitches in that inning.
Lidge apparently worked with Nolan Ryan on his mechanics in the offseason. They know his delivery is off, and (i think definitely) tipping his slider. The question is, what do you do with him now. He might have some options left. He can't be counted on to close games. And the thing that would be best for him - a trade to a new place - would bring almost nothing in return value right now.
Posted: April 9 07, 9:40 am
by greenback44
heyzeus wrote:And the thing that would be best for him - a trade to a new place - would bring almost nothing in return value right now.
If I'm running the Astros, then I try to get some sort of PTBNL contingent on Lidge's recovery. If I can't, then I trade him anyway. No point in making the man miserable.