2011 Payroll Breakdown and Discussion

[jagtrader]

I'll be honest. This collapse hasn't bothered me much because it may serve as the kick in the teeth the Cardinals needed so they won't sit on their hands all winter and do next to nothing again. Maybe it'll create a greater sense of urgency about the lineup, although the payroll outlook is not promising.

[Fat Strat]

I appreciate everything that Skip has done, but if he's the starting 2nd basemen next year, MO has failed as a GM.

even if Mo sits on his hands all off season, I'd still rather see Danny Descalso at 2b with Skip moving back to 4th OF

If they just can't find anyone else for 2b, Descalso better get a fair look in ST at the very least.

Again, consider Greene -- this line, .265 .359 .412 .771 107 -- looks pretty good at 2nd for an entire season. It's not out of the realm of possibility for him at all, and he should be at least even if not plus at 2nd.

Greene has been considerably better offensively at AAA than Descalso, but he's also several years older. I also don't know how Descalso is defensively.

[go birds]

I'm just gonna post here what i posted in my topic about 2011:

Things i think need to be addressed.

(1) Let LaRussa walk. Find a new manager who doesn't make boneheaded ego-driven decisions on a regular basis.

(2) Throw a butt-ton of money at Duncan with hopes he stays. It's prolly just wishful thinking that he would stay without LaRussa though. This also prolly depends on the new manager.

(3) Try to Sign Pujols. Bump ticket prices up a couple dollars (as discussed earlier in anther thread). If he doesn't re-sign then you have to trade him. I'm sorry but that's just how it's gotta be, imo. I don't want him to leave, don't ever wanna see him in another uniform, etc, but i'm a cards fan first and a Pujols fan second.

(3) Invite Matt Carpenter to spring training and see what he's got. Maybe even try to sign Beltre? I'm not sold on Freese staying healthy (sober) anymore. If Beltre is signed, then you let Carpenter develop and if he continues to delveop, you may have a valuable trade chip for a mid-season acquisition.

(4) Invite Descalso to spring training to see what he's got. Hopefully he'll stick and we have a cheap 2 bagger to fill the void until Zach Cox is ready, assuming 2B is where he will play. If Descalso doesn't work out, then you have to make 2B a priority. And this doesn't mean you just "play Skip there because we have no other option".

(5) Re-sign Westbrook as your #4. I like the guy. He's a good fit as a #4.

(6) Try to find a more reliable closer. Or give Motte a crack at closing.

(7) Brendan Ryan is our starting SS. I don't care what he bats. His defense is too valuable.

(8) For the love of all things holy, Colby Rasmus is OUR STARTING EVERYDAY CENTERFIELDER. See (1).

(9) Jay is our starting RF.



I really don't think we have many valuable major league ready trade chips other than Pujols, so alot of our upgrades will have to come from the free agent pool. It's not a very sexy pool, but there are upgrades.

So hypothetically, who does Pujols get traded to? I figure it has to be to a large market that can afford to re-sign him.


The large markets include:

Boston? Who would they be willing to give up? I'm not very knowledgeable of their system.

Anaheim? Perhaps we could snag Kendry Morales in a deal.

Medium market:

Texas? Not too knowledgeable of their system either, but the new ownership group would prolly look to make a splash and make their team even more formidable.

Small market:

Tampa Bay? Would they be willing to spend to money? They do have a new stadium in the works.



I'm not gonna throw out numbers simply because i'm not privvy to budget numbers, nor do i know ownerships intentions regarding holding firm on the budget or bumping it up to accomodate needs.

[New Pagodi]

Possibly, but what alternatives does the club have?

Your right. I posted that out of anger without really looking. The list of free agents for 2nd base is really awful:

Willie Bloomquist KC
Mark Ellis OAK *
Akinori Iwamura PIT
Jose Lopez SEA *
Kaz Matsui COL
Aaron Miles STL

[cards2468]

I appreciate everything that Skip has done, but if he's the starting 2nd basemen next year, MO has failed as a GM.

even if Mo sits on his hands all off season, I'd still rather see Danny Descalso at 2b with Skip moving back to 4th OF

If they just can't find anyone else for 2b, Descalso better get a fair look in ST at the very least.

Again, consider Greene -- this line, .265 .359 .412 .771 107 -- looks pretty good at 2nd for an entire season. It's not out of the realm of possibility for him at all, and he should be at least even if not plus at 2nd.

Greene has been considerably better offensively at AAA than Descalso, but he's also several years older. I also don't know how Descalso is defensively.

It wouldn't hurt to have both on the team. Greene has shown he can play 3b, ss and 2b all well and as seen this year, that's a very valuable trait to have (now why aren't we using it?)

[Fat Strat]

Then what, Miles, Descalso, Gotay/Carpenter backing up Greene/Freese?

Not having a backup 2B or 3B I'd feel comfortable starting every day in September scares me.

Well, something like this:

1b - Pujols - $5 million buyout included already + $11 million option ($16 million total)
2b - Greene - $450k
3b - Freese 450k
SS - Ryan - arb
C - Molina - $5.3 million
OF - Holliday - $17 million (some deferred)
OF - Rasmus - $450k
OF - Jay - $450k

SP - Wainwright - $6.68
SP - Carpenter - $15 million
SP - Lohse - $12.18 million
SP - Garcia - $450k
SP - Westbrook - $7.5

CL - Franklin - $3.5 million
RH - McClellan - arb
LH - Miller - $2 million option
LH - FA - $2.0 million
RH - Boggs - $450k
RH - Motte - $450k
RH - Salas/Hawk/Lynn - $450k

BC - Anderson - $450k
OF/IN - Skip - $2.7 million
OF - Craig - $450k
OF - Stavy
UT - Miles - $1 million

That actually takes us $500k over budget. I don't know...

Edit: I don't see how you're going to get a backup 3b that could start unless you compromise on something else -- no Westbrook, no LHRP (and we have no one in the system who could fill this role). A backup 3b that could start will cost you at least $1.5 million and probably more like $3 million.

[clevername]

god that Lohse contract is just...[expletive].

don't know how much we can depend on Freese.

seems like if all we do is re-sign Westbrook (and I absolutely think that we should) we're not making any progress over where we already are this season. I think payroll needs to go up, and not in a cards talk open up the DeWallet kind of way.

[Fat Strat]

god that Lohse contract is just...[expletive].

don't know how much we can depend on Freese.

seems like if all we do is re-sign Westbrook (and I absolutely think that we should) we're not making any progress over where we already are this season. I think payroll needs to go up, and not in a cards talk open up the DeWallet kind of way.

You're right. Lohse is absolutely killing us right now.

Part of why I started this thread was to get some discussion payroll levels. It seems like it absolutely has to go up and not in 2012 when Pujols gets his raise, but right now.

[mcgee51taguchi99]

Fat, you're toying with my emotions. Why the [expletive] is Miles on that list? I'd rather try taking a flyer on a rule 5 guy or someone with (a pet peeve of mine but I'll say it anyway) some potential upside. I know it's the last roster spot and all and I probably shouldn't care, but for some reason I do. It's the GRB way.

[Fat Strat]

Fat, you're toying with my emotions. Why the [expletive] is Miles on that list? I'd rather try taking a flyer on a rule 5 guy or someone with (a pet peeve of mine but I'll say it anyway) some potential upside. I know it's the last roster spot and all and I probably shouldn't care, but for some reason I do. It's the GRB way.

Hey, I can't believe that I'm putting Miles on there, but on some absurd level, he makes a ton of sense. He'll be cheap, he's a known quantity. He's looked pretty solid this year at ph'ing and 2nd. He should be a consistent performer, which I find shockingly appealing on a club full of unknowns and streaky hitters.