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Jocephus wrote:

Girschmo: Mike, this is a safe place. A place where we can feel free sharing our feelings. Think of my office as a nest in a tree of trust and understanding. We can say anything here.

Matheny: Anything? Well, uh I guess I, deep down, am feeling a little confused. I mean, suddenly, you become manager, and you're supposed to be this entirely different guy. I don't feel different. I mean, take yesterday for example. We were monitoring the bullpen, watching a warmup, which was lovely. And, uh, I happen to look over at a certain point during the warmup and see Bowman get up to get loose, and I found myself wondering what he might look like as closer. Him closing. Uh, odds are he's probably a basic, white, average reliever. But I sort of think, well, maybe he's a power pitcher, maybe he's a finesse pitcher. Maybe it's something really cool that I don't even know about. You know, and uh, and I started feeling... what? What, I thought we were in the trust tree in the nest, were we not?

lol, this is greatness

Holland, Cecil, Gregerson, Leone.... all blow.

Loving these 30+ acquisitions! Love me Jonathan Broxton types.

Hey I guess getting lucky on Bud Norris makes up for all the other awful bullpen pickups.

Big Amoco Sign wrote:Holland, Cecil, Gregerson, Leone.... all blow.

Loving these 30+ acquisitions! Love me Jonathan Broxton types.

Hey I guess getting lucky on Bud Norris makes up for all the other awful bullpen pickups.

Until Norris is overused and thrown on the heap with the others.

More like Circle of Bust.

circle of rust
circle of crust
circle of dust after the opponent rounds the bases

The Circle of Bust must end.

I'm thinking it's probably time to send Hicks down to get some more experience. That's what I argued at the beginning. Then I got caught up in the velocity and movement. The new car smell has worn off and I'm back where I started -- limited control, head-scratching lack of swings & misses and low K%.

We are getting close to the time when we could start looking hard at creative alternatives. Helsley could replace Hicks. Hudson should be better than Bowman. I also think that bringng Brebbia back and keeping him around would be a good idea.

This is why bullpens are considered so volatile. But, we have enough talented arms not to suffer through the volatility too long. We have probably 20 guys to mix and match from that could be solid pen arms. Those that are struggling now won't necessarily struggle later. Those who are good now might struggle later... just have to find the right combo for the right time.

Fat Strat wrote:I'm thinking it's probably time to send Hicks down to get some more experience. That's what I argued at the beginning. Then I got caught up in the velocity and movement. The new car smell has worn off and I'm back where I started -- limited control, head-scratching lack of swings & misses and low K%.

We are getting close to the time when we could start looking hard at creative alternatives. Helsley could replace Hicks. Hudson should be better than Bowman. I also think that bringng Brebbia back and keeping him around would be a good idea.

This is why bullpens are considered so volatile. But, we have enough talented arms not to suffer through the volatility too long. We have probably 20 guys to mix and match from that could be solid pen arms. Those that are struggling now won't necessarily struggle later. Those who are good now might struggle later... just have to find the right combo for the right time.

I agree with your thought process, but not all arms are created equally.

Because of their contracts, Holland and Gregerson aren't going anywhere. Lyons is out of options, so he has a spot locked up as well. Mo painted himself into a corner. Again.

Crazy to me that Brebbia and Gant are in Memphis right now.

dmarx114 wrote:I agree with your thought process, but not all arms are created equally.

Because of their contracts, Holland and Gregerson aren't going anywhere. Lyons is out of options, so he has a spot locked up as well. Mo painted himself into a corner. Again.

Crazy to me that Brebbia and Gant are in Memphis right now.

I don't really understand what you're implying. You were (rightly) concerned about the bullpen this winter. Well, Mo signed some arms to reasonable contracts who should be decent at worst and great at best. Now, you're saying that Mo painted himself into a corner? The only alternative to experienced, proven arms with significant contracts and a guaranteed roster spot are highly questionable arms that you could release if needed (Broxton's) and guys with limited experience (i.e. options remaining). Only one of those type are typically available through the FA market. The other through trade. (We did that with Leone.) I'm pretty sure you would have been dissatisfied with Mo's approach if he had not signed some proven arms and stuck with flexibility.

As far as the arms that we did sign, Holland should land somewhere between servicable and great; he's still in spring training, essentially. I'm not very worried about him, though it sucks that he's having his ST during the season. Gregerson also needs some patience. He only has just over 3 innings on the year. I'm less confident about him; never really liked that signing, but he's always been serviceable at worst. I think Lyons will be fine or he's injured. His velocity is slightly down across the board but His K% is still really high; he just hasn't gotten the results yet. (Or, he's hurt). Norris has been the steal we thought he would be.

Really, outside of Holland (only 7 innings), our problems have been with the guys who have the most flexibility -- Hicks, Leone and Bowman.

I like guys out of the pen who miss bats without giving up free passes. Those guys in a short outing in which something small going wrong (a walk, or a couple back-to-back seeing-eye singles) can cause a lot of damage are the ones I think are most valuable. So I'd like to see an awful lot more Brebbia and I'm fairly convinced Norris's luck on balls in play will get better. I like Leone a lot too. Norris needs to have his high-leverage innings pitched dropped to darn near zero until he gets right on the walks.