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AdmiralKird wrote:It's just a letter grade. It's not going to change where you go in life. I'll argue a price or a decision all day if I see something wrong, but a few points or a letter grade... It's just not worth the hassle.

GPA makes a huge difference for your first job out of college. All my friends who scored above 3.0 are employed, all my friends below 3.0 are unemployed.



I only argued a grade a couple times, and each time it was with individuals from the Theology department. I had an ethics class (Catholic priest as the professor) where there were no tests, but the only requirement was to show up to every class, read the required books, and post daily in our online journal. I did all of those, but he gave me a C because he didn't agree with some of my ideas I talked about in my journal entries, so I emailed him saying it didn't seem right, and he asked me to read another book he recommended and to meet with him over lunch to discuss it. Got myself a free lunch and my grade was bumped up to an A. It worked out pretty well.

My grading is subjective but not arbitrary, so if a student can explain where I erred, or explain more fully what he or she was writing, I'm more than willing to regrade.

For the first exam in lot of my classes, I allow students to revise for partial credit, which alleviates some problems.

But there are some answers that simply indicate that the student didn't read the work or show up for class. Statements such as "Harriet Beecher Stowe is a great black writer," followed by a bunch of hooey. Or an answer that avoids talking about Poe's "The Black Cat," and focuses on where he was born, or that he was an alcoholic. Or the essay that, on page three, contains an unedited passage that reads, quite literally, "Richard Wright, in his novel Native Son, I need an idea I need an idea I need an idea I need an idea I need an idea I need an idea I need an idea I need an idea I need an idea I need an idea . . . "

I kid you not.

Or guesses that Robert Frost's poem "The Oven Bird" is about a Thanksgiving turkey. Most such students don't argue about their grades, but scurry back into the woodwork.

I do occasionally get the "Please raise my grade or I'll be placed on academic probation."

I had to politely explain to one student about the math used to calculate grade point average. To be placed on probation, you have to have an average far worse than a 2.0. A C+ is higher than a 2.0, and so I didn't think my course was the source of the problem.

My plagiarism cases have been so severe and extensive, though, that there could be no doubt of intent. Since I'm quite available, and quite willing to grant an extension to finish a paper, I just photocopy the evidence and send it off to the dean's office

sighyoung wrote:My grading is subjective but not arbitrary, so if a student can explain where I erred, or explain more fully what he or she was writing, I'm more than willing to regrade.

For the first exam in lot of my classes, I allow students to revise for partial credit, which alleviates some problems.

But there are some answers that simply indicate that the student didn't read the work or show up for class. Statements such as "Harriet Beecher Stowe is a great black writer," followed by a bunch of hooey. Or an answer that avoids talking about Poe's "The Black Cat," and focuses on where he was born, or that he was an alcoholic. Or the essay that, on page three, contains an unedited passage that reads, quite literally, "Richard Wright, in his novel Native Son, I need an idea I need an idea I need an idea I need an idea I need an idea I need an idea I need an idea I need an idea I need an idea I need an idea . . . "

I kid you not.

Or guesses that Robert Frost's poem "The Oven Bird" is about a Thanksgiving turkey. Most such students don't argue about their grades, but scurry back into the woodwork.

I do occasionally get the "Please raise my grade or I'll be placed on academic probation."

I had to politely explain to one student about the math used to calculate grade point average. To be placed on probation, you have to have an average far worse than a 2.0. A C+ is higher than a 2.0, and so I didn't think my course was the source of the problem.

My plagiarism cases have been so severe and extensive, though, that there could be no doubt of intent. Since I'm quite available, and quite willing to grant an extension to finish a paper, I just photocopy the evidence and send it off to the dean's office

I did the same thing once!

I was in a Senior seminar (8 students) on Nietzsche and had to write a 5 page response to the reading each week. I was having a particularly difficult time starting a response one week and class was in just a few hours when I remembered that somewhere between kindergarten and college graduation, someone gave me advice on how to break through writer's block: just start writing! Free form, blast away with any thoughts that are even remotely/tangentially related to the subject at hand, but the most important thing was to just. start. writing. We were going through a few sections from Beyond Good and Evil and I started with something like:

Nietzsche. Knee-cha. Cha Cha. Zsa Zsa? God is dead. Well, so is Nietzsche. Something something the ship is off the moorings and society is directionless. We've killed or gods, but we created them as well, so... that's not so bad, right? Time for new gods? Time for no gods? Society's reliance on the supernatural and Platonic Truth vs. the Ubermensch, who frankly, would probably win in a fight. First rule of Nietzsche fight club, don't talk about Nietzsche fight club. Clubs... religion... Plato = Christianity ... Nietzsche = ...

This went on for an entire page. Eventually, I found the thread I wanted to use for the paper and blasted out the 5 pages, printed it, and ran to class. When I got home from class, I realized that I had printed 6 pages, having never deleted the original cognitive vomit page. I went to his office hours the next day, hoping to catch him before grading... I did not. Luckily, he was a cool guy and ignored the first page for grading purposes, though it didn't stop him from reading from it to start the next class.

JoD...at least it sounded like educated babble.

I had a friend with a 2.8, management major, who was employed 3 months out of college. I had Finance and Accounting with a 3.4 and it took me a year and a half. I interviewed for the same position as him, same company, a year after he started and didn't get the same job. I don't think its that big of a deal, at least in non-science fields.

AdmiralKird wrote:I had a friend with a 2.8, management major, who was employed 3 months out of college. I had Finance and Accounting with a 3.4 and it took me a year and a half. I interviewed for the same position as him, same company, a year after he started and didn't get the same job. I don't think its that big of a deal, at least in non-science fields.

Unless you're a_smith's student. Then one crappy professor sends you down the long self-destructive spiral of plagiarism, meth use, prostitution, sale of body parts on the black market, attempted suicide, and finally, a non-Ivy-League law school.

AdmiralKird wrote:I had a friend with a 2.8, management major, who was employed 3 months out of college. I had Finance and Accounting with a 3.4 and it took me a year and a half. I interviewed for the same position as him, same company, a year after he started and didn't get the same job. I don't think its that big of a deal, at least in non-science fields.

Maybe it's different for non-science fields, but most employers had very specific GPA requirements for engineering positions I was looking at. My employer hired me to an internship after junior year, and the first thing they told me was that if I don't keep my GPA above 3.0, they'll fire me. My old roommate had a 3.8 GPA, and had he reached 3.9, it would have been a $5,000 annual boost in pay for the job he took with Boeing. Most engineers didn't stress over GPA though. It was one of those things that you had to bust your ass regardless, and your grade was pretty objective. Biomedical engineering students, on the other hand, would murder a professor if they got less than what they thought they were entitled to receive.

cards2468 wrote:

AdmiralKird wrote:I had a friend with a 2.8, management major, who was employed 3 months out of college. I had Finance and Accounting with a 3.4 and it took me a year and a half. I interviewed for the same position as him, same company, a year after he started and didn't get the same job. I don't think its that big of a deal, at least in non-science fields.

Maybe it's different for non-science fields, but most employers had very specific GPA requirements for engineering positions I was looking at. My employer hired me to an internship after junior year, and the first thing they told me was that if I don't keep my GPA above 3.0, they'll fire me. My old roommate had a 3.8 GPA, and had he reached 3.9, it would have been a $5,000 annual boost in pay for the job he took with Boeing. Most engineers didn't stress over GPA though. It was one of those things that you had to bust your ass regardless, and your grade was pretty objective. Biomedical engineering students, on the other hand, would murder a professor if they got less than what they thought they were entitled to receive.

I think you're getting us confused with pre-med.

AdmiralKird wrote:I had a friend with a 2.8, management major, who was employed 3 months out of college. I had Finance and Accounting with a 3.4 and it took me a year and a half. I interviewed for the same position as him, same company, a year after he started and didn't get the same job. I don't think its that big of a deal, at least in non-science fields.

You have to a) not give a [expletive] or b) be a special kind of stupid to get below a 3.0 as a management major. Was it a good job?

RxOfCowbell wrote:

cards2468 wrote:

AdmiralKird wrote:I had a friend with a 2.8, management major, who was employed 3 months out of college. I had Finance and Accounting with a 3.4 and it took me a year and a half. I interviewed for the same position as him, same company, a year after he started and didn't get the same job. I don't think its that big of a deal, at least in non-science fields.

Maybe it's different for non-science fields, but most employers had very specific GPA requirements for engineering positions I was looking at. My employer hired me to an internship after junior year, and the first thing they told me was that if I don't keep my GPA above 3.0, they'll fire me. My old roommate had a 3.8 GPA, and had he reached 3.9, it would have been a $5,000 annual boost in pay for the job he took with Boeing. Most engineers didn't stress over GPA though. It was one of those things that you had to bust your ass regardless, and your grade was pretty objective. Biomedical engineering students, on the other hand, would murder a professor if they got less than what they thought they were entitled to receive.

I think you're getting us confused with pre-med.

Could be because like 90% of the BME's at SLU are pre-med. A very whiny bunch of kids. All the professors I talk with regularly complain about them with similar stories as to what I've read in this thread.