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lukethedrifter wrote:If the Cards offered 10% more than the White Sox then you're being unreasonable about what they should offfer. Instead they need to look at the perception of the organization and maybe the city.

A few thoughts.

We are operating on the assumption they were the top bidders. Given the thoughts 36 hours ago, that should at least assuage some.

They may well have not outbid the Sox.

If they did and lost, are we sure it's the city or club problem? A 19 year old may see the Cubs as an unstoppable force right and decided the AL Central is his best chance to shine on a winning team.

I generally defend the team on their spending but this one hurts a bit. Kind of stream of consciousness but I agree if they were the top bid their pitch didn't land and that's a symptom of a problem but one that is really impossible to know. They could well be playing up STL or culture and failing but it could also be an immature foreign ballplayer who'd rather be in Chicago or in the AL.

A guy coming from Cuba is probably way more concerned about money and comfort level than finding the team most likely to compete. It was obvious that the White Sox had an advantage on the comfort level aspect, so if the consensus is he's worth $25 million you blow everyone else out of the water and offer $35 or 40. Losing out on the potential surplus value an elite prospect can provide over 5 or 10 million is silly. If the Cardinals aren't going to be players for the Machados of the world, they have to win on guys like this.

Famous Mortimer wrote:

IMADreamer wrote:I think we have to realize that elite talent doesn't want to play in St Louis. Let's be honest St Louis kinda sucks. It's possible the manager and front office are not liked either. Then you factor in the potential for endorsements. St Louis will never compete with that potential to NY, Chicago, LA, and Boston.

I'll reserve judgement til I find out how much more St Louis offered, so I hope it's just the money. Maybe the Cardinals ought to ask the city to be a bit less filthy and run-down, that might be the thing that spurs development in the north of the city.

I know it's the internet so it's important to be a smart ass instead of actually discussing, but let's take a look at some things.

Outsiders know two things about St. Louis right now. The Arch and Ferguson. If you know baseball you know the Cardinals and you might know the Rams left.

Meanwhile in Chicago you have a world class city. Literally one of the worlds great centers of population.

This isn't just about baseball players though, I go back to a few years ago when my late gf's company was looking for a new world HQ. The finalists were Chicago and St. Louis, but really St. Louis was never in the running, they were just using it to leverage tax breaks in Chicago. No one was pushing for St. Louis because if you are rich, which all the execs were you wanted to live in world class Chicago. It's not hard to imagine baseball players thinking the same.

A few years ago St. Louis as a baseball town had a mystique. One of the best players in the game was here, one of the best managers ever, and the organization was on fire. Flash forward and while the team still wins, sorta, the great player and manager have long found homes elsewhere. There have been rumblings of something amiss at the top and that players of a certain color do not feel welcome here. That may be not true, but the rumors are there. All that's left is this wholesome best fans image that's been eroded by the media and some not so best fans.

It's not at all out of the realm of possibility that any player looking at the two cities would not want to make St. Louis home.

I'm not saying that's what happened here, but if it comes out that the Cards did infact put in the better offer it certainly seems like those factors could be true.

Johnconrad wrote:

jagtrader wrote:I didn't bother to get emotionally invested this time. Much easier.

It was only 40 million less than the OP suggested. Still not enough of a bargain for Moe.

That included the tax

cardsfansince82 wrote:A guy coming from Cuba is probably way more concerned about money and comfort level than finding the team most likely to compete. It was obvious that the White Sox had an advantage on the comfort level aspect, so if the consensus is he's worth $25 million you blow everyone else out of the water and offer $35 or 40. Losing out on the potential surplus value an elite prospect can provide over 5 or 10 million is silly. If the Cardinals aren't going to be players for the Machados of the world, they have to win on guys like this.

Yep. Quibbling over what percentage the Cardinals did or didn't offer above the White Sox when we're basically talking about a drop in the bucket for this franchise is silly. And if there is a perception issue with the city or franchise, you overcome it with a blow them away offer... which usually means money that can't be turned down.

MrCrowesGarden wrote:Yep. Quibbling over what percentage the Cardinals did or didn't offer above the White Sox when we're basically talking about a drop in the bucket for this franchise is silly. And if there is a perception issue with the city or franchise, you overcome it with a blow them away offer... which usually means money that can't be turned down.

Like the Red Sox did with Price.

Moe blew it - again

Becoming a habit.

Tim wrote:

Johnconrad wrote:

jagtrader wrote:I didn't bother to get emotionally invested this time. Much easier.

It was only 40 million less than the OP suggested. Still not enough of a bargain for Moe.

That included the tax

And taxes in Illinois are so low as to not be believed.

The Cardinals' bonus offer was among the most lucrative, but it was not believed to be the highest. A source indicated to MLB.com's Jesse Sanchez

http://m.cardinals.mlb.com/news/article ... d=tw_share

MrCrowesGarden wrote:

The Cardinals' bonus offer was among the most lucrative, but it was not believed to be the highest. A source indicated to MLB.com's Jesse Sanchez

http://m.cardinals.mlb.com/news/article ... d=tw_share

That means that to have matched the White Sox reported offer, it would have cost the Cardinals $52 million to $54 million.

Weren't the Sox in the same boat?