Stupid students who dont know they are stupid

[TimeForGuinness]

I had a friend with a 2.8, management major, who was employed 3 months out of college. I had Finance and Accounting with a 3.4 and it took me a year and a half. I interviewed for the same position as him, same company, a year after he started and didn't get the same job. I don't think its that big of a deal, at least in non-science fields.

They probably paid him less than they would have paid you.

[a_smith]

would murder a professor if they got less than what they thought they were entitled to receive.

This applies to most students. If they feel they are entitled to a certain grade, then they whine [expletive] and moan about the injustice of it all.

Biomed students, engineering, nursing, pre-med, athletes, honors students, etc -pretty much any student who might be weeded out of a program based on GPA and is a little bit insecure.

Most students don't feel this entitlement, but the ones that do can be pretty painful to deal with as they are not really interested in learning, but rather they want the grade.

As a TA in grad school I encountered an impressive group of grade entitled whiners. It was a group of high school teachers taking MA classes. Not only was their grad course easier than a freshman level course, many of their papers were worse than freshman. More irritating was that we couldn't really give them anything less than a C on a paper and even then they [expletive] about it. I had one person refuse to accept the grade of C on a paper and insisted that I was just a mere graduate student and couldn't possibly know what I was talking about. The Prof backed me up. It was nice.

They complained about everything, they cross talked in class, they showed up late, they packed up their books with 15 minutes left in class. Heck, during breaks they even would get into complaining sessions about how much their students complained.

We all knew that it was a racket for them and the school. They got easy easy classes that counted for an MA for them and the University got $$$ from having filled classes. But damn those high school teachers were easily the worst I have encountered.

[cards2468]

would murder a professor if they got less than what they thought they were entitled to receive.

This applies to most students. If they feel they are entitled to a certain grade, then they whine [expletive] and moan about the injustice of it all.

Biomed students, engineering, nursing, pre-med, athletes, honors students, etc -pretty much any student who might be weeded out of a program based on GPA and is a little bit insecure.

Most students don't feel this entitlement, but the ones that do can be pretty painful to deal with as they are not really interested in learning, but rather they want the grade.

As a TA in grad school I encountered an impressive group of grade entitled whiners. It was a group of high school teachers taking MA classes. Not only was their grad course easier than a freshman level course, many of their papers were worse than freshman. More irritating was that we couldn't really give them anything less than a C on a paper and even then they [expletive] about it. I had one person refuse to accept the grade of C on a paper and insisted that I was just a mere graduate student and couldn't possibly know what I was talking about. The Prof backed me up. It was nice.

They complained about everything, they cross talked in class, they showed up late, they packed up their books with 15 minutes left in class. Heck, during breaks they even would get into complaining sessions about how much their students complained.

We all knew that it was a racket for them and the school. They got easy easy classes that counted for an MA for them and the University got $$$ from having filled classes. But damn those high school teachers were easily the worst I have encountered.

Jesus that sounds awful.


Engineering wasn't that bad, and I think it's because we weren't really expected to get A's. I know I celebrated over C's on tests before. Really as long as you stay above 3.0 in engineering, you'll be fine in the job market or getting into grad school.

[AdmiralKird]

I had a friend with a 2.8, management major, who was employed 3 months out of college. I had Finance and Accounting with a 3.4 and it took me a year and a half. I interviewed for the same position as him, same company, a year after he started and didn't get the same job. I don't think its that big of a deal, at least in non-science fields.

You have to a) not give a [expletive] or b) be a special kind of stupid to get below a 3.0 as a management major. Was it a good job?

Credit Analyst entry-position, starting at 36,000 plus paid health/dental/life insurance, which is still higher/better than what I'm earning, and I work 50 hrs a week, 10 weeks out of the year.

While we're discussing blow-off classes and whether grades matter, I find it funny because I have a B in all my management classes because I simply didn't think doing that work was worth my time for the grade, because honestly I think there is more real value in reading most GRB discussions and formulating arguments and analyzing people's interactions and various viewpoints than studying factoids for those exams. I honestly just didn't do one of the two business SWOT reports in my 400 level management classes because the first one was too easy, pointless to do another - I wouldn't learn anything from it, and just took too long to do and I wanted to use that time elsewhere. I eventually had to do about ten more reports like that, but they were inclusive into my elective APM course which was so much more difficult and thought provoking than a mgmt course that it should have been worth four to five A's.

Grades are funny. In High School Physics I once had an F at the midterm and my friends were just like, wtf kird? one kept ripping on me for that grade and after getting about 110%'s on everything for the rest of the semester I had an A and he had dropped to an A-, but it was the saddest A- he ever got. In college I had a D- in Philosophy 300 at midterm, got A's the rest of the semester and had a B+ to finish. Grades to me are just how much I was motivated. I'll get a C+ in English 190 then get an A in a class where I write a combined 100 pages+.

To me, a cumulative GPA doesn't really tell much. You'd get more value at an interview sitting down with a student and requesting a copy of their transcript and going over how that student felt, what they feel they truly got out of that class that they remember, and why they got the grade they did than seeing a two digit number on a sheet.

[sighyoung]

Most employers winnow down the number of applicants to a manageable number, so they're going to use crude measures such a GPA to do it.

This reminds me of student who was advised by a friend of mine. It seems the student thought he was on the verge of graduating, but he had failed so many classes that he was, in fact, only a second-semester sophomore. When informed of this, the student was floored. "What? You don't get ANYTHING for failing a class?!"

(sigh)

[Hudler]

Where was his trophy for participation!!

I seriously don't know how anyone can teach anymore.

[redbirdjazzz]

As a TA in grad school I encountered an impressive group of grade entitled whiners.

At MU, this group is Journalism students taking classes in other departments, particularly writing-heavy disciplines like history. They think that because they're in the J-School that they actually know how to write, which most of them don't. If I give some of them anything less than an A on a paper, they [expletive] and moan about it. Something they never seem to be taught is that writing conventions can vary widely between disciplines, which should be obvious by the time they're in upper division college classes, but for some reason isn't.

[a_smith]

UPDATE- on student from page 1

(Remember that she was caught plagiarizing). After that incident I advised her that it was impossible for her to pass the class and that she should consider dropping the course instead of having an F.

She had 1 month to drop the class. In that time she did not spend the 2 minutes it would take to put her name on a document, sign it and hand it in to our registrar. This is a really easy thing to do. It is that simple. Students just have to do this before the deadline.

She forgot.

One week after the deadline I get an amused call from my dean asking me about a document with my name and 'signature on it.'
He just wants me to see it.

It says

"I, Dr ___________ give _________________ permission to not be enrolled in _______________________ She can withdraw from the class after the deadline because I told her she could do this when we discussed it in my office.
Sincerely,
_______________________________


Mind you, that the signature is not even close, that I don't have this power to do this, and if I had tried to get an exemption to a university policy I would have made a really clear argument for why this was essential and then I would have let my dean take it to the registrar.

But instead of just dropping the class prior to the deadline or just dealing with the F, she forged my name to a document. This violates every code of student conduct that we have.

She is now in expulsion territory.

[cardsfansince82]

You just don't know how to relate to truly gifted students. She sounds like the gift that keeps on giving.

[Joe Shlabotnik]

She will be the first woman President. Or a very successful banker / lawyer.