Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin

[docellis]

I think it is interesting that the most vehement prochoice people "seem" to be men.

[Leroy]

That's true. I'm most vehement.

[jim]

I have personal experience with abortion. My college girlfriend got pregnant. She was from an evangelical family in Houston. Her parents did not approve of me because I was Catholic, from the midwest, from a broken family, and not wealthy (these were my assessments of their dislike). She decided to abort, under a great deal of pressure from her parents (or so I was told). I made my best case for having the child and making things work between us. That her parents would come around once they got to know me and my family. I even offered to take the child and raise it if that was what she wanted. But to no avail. In the end, I felt that I had no choice because it wasn't my body, it was hers. So, heartbroken, I sent her a check.

I'm sure her parents, if they are still around today, are strong right-to-lifers and would never vote for a pro-choice candidate. But they have the resources to take care of "problems" with or without laws to ensure that option is available to everyone in a safe manner. So I'm not sure what my point is in sharing my story, but as a Catholic I believe that life begins at conception and ends at natural death. I also believe that women have a right to choose. And that means all women, not just ones who can afford choice regardless of what the law says.

Wow -- thanks for sharing that rad. Personal stories take the abstraction out of things, don't they?



rad, I perfectly understand your personal beliefs. On a personal level, I'd have to iron out of few details with you but I'd say we pretty much are on the same page. The question is, what is Uncle Sam's say in this? Is this a personal decision, or something the gov't should make?

I have to admit that I am completely up in the air on this. I have no stance on abortion in terms of what the gov't should do. I see both sides, and simply can't see which is right. Personally my choice is easy.

[wart57]

So the baby would not be a person if it was born with a birth defect? If things would have been difficult on the mother it is ok to kill the baby? I never said Obama was a baby killer. I am done with the abortion issue, I gave my stance, I am not changing my mind. I heard the heartbeat of my child when it was 4 weeks old in my wifes womb, to me that is life, and nothing can justify taking that life. I will not talk about this issue any more since my opinions upset so many people, and I can't be objective. It is sure nice to know others can have opinions and beliefs but I can't. Carry on.

You seem to be the only one that's having trouble discussing this calmly.

I never said anything about "things being difficult for the mother". I'm talking about how difficult life is going to be for the child that is born to a teenage mother that has nothing. Some of those children suffer unmercifully. I'm thankful that your sister had places to go to make a good life for the child, but some people just don't. It's an unfortunate reality.

So these children are better of dead?
I have been calm the whole time.

[lukethedrifter]

I think it is interesting that the most vehement prochoice people "seem" to be men.

You wouldn't say the same of the prolife crowd?

[Socnorb11]

So the baby would not be a person if it was born with a birth defect? If things would have been difficult on the mother it is ok to kill the baby? I never said Obama was a baby killer. I am done with the abortion issue, I gave my stance, I am not changing my mind. I heard the heartbeat of my child when it was 4 weeks old in my wifes womb, to me that is life, and nothing can justify taking that life. I will not talk about this issue any more since my opinions upset so many people, and I can't be objective. It is sure nice to know others can have opinions and beliefs but I can't. Carry on.

You seem to be the only one that's having trouble discussing this calmly.

I never said anything about "things being difficult for the mother". I'm talking about how difficult life is going to be for the child that is born to a teenage mother that has nothing. Some of those children suffer unmercifully. I'm thankful that your sister had places to go to make a good life for the child, but some people just don't. It's an unfortunate reality.

So these children are better of dead?
I have been calm the whole time.

I think it's a matter of each individual deciding when they believe "life" begins. Is it when there is a living organ in the womb, or is it when the brain develops, or is it some other time.

In no way am I saying that I believe in unconditional abortion.

[Jocephus]

So the baby would not be a person if it was born with a birth defect? If things would have been difficult on the mother it is ok to kill the baby? I never said Obama was a baby killer. I am done with the abortion issue, I gave my stance, I am not changing my mind. I heard the heartbeat of my child when it was 4 weeks old in my wifes womb, to me that is life, and nothing can justify taking that life. I will not talk about this issue any more since my opinions upset so many people, and I can't be objective. It is sure nice to know others can have opinions and beliefs but I can't. Carry on.

You seem to be the only one that's having trouble discussing this calmly.

I never said anything about "things being difficult for the mother". I'm talking about how difficult life is going to be for the child that is born to a teenage mother that has nothing. Some of those children suffer unmercifully. I'm thankful that your sister had places to go to make a good life for the child, but some people just don't. It's an unfortunate reality.

So these children are better of dead?
I have been calm the whole time.

I think it's a matter of each individual deciding when they believe "life" begins. Is it when there is a living organ in the womb, or is it when the brain develops, or is it some other time.

in other words, is it a pizza when the ingredients are on the dough or when it comes outta the oven?

[sighyoung]

That's true. I'm most vehement.

Stop hyperventilating.

[Socnorb11]

So the baby would not be a person if it was born with a birth defect? If things would have been difficult on the mother it is ok to kill the baby? I never said Obama was a baby killer. I am done with the abortion issue, I gave my stance, I am not changing my mind. I heard the heartbeat of my child when it was 4 weeks old in my wifes womb, to me that is life, and nothing can justify taking that life. I will not talk about this issue any more since my opinions upset so many people, and I can't be objective. It is sure nice to know others can have opinions and beliefs but I can't. Carry on.

You seem to be the only one that's having trouble discussing this calmly.

I never said anything about "things being difficult for the mother". I'm talking about how difficult life is going to be for the child that is born to a teenage mother that has nothing. Some of those children suffer unmercifully. I'm thankful that your sister had places to go to make a good life for the child, but some people just don't. It's an unfortunate reality.

So these children are better of dead?
I have been calm the whole time.

I think it's a matter of each individual deciding when they believe "life" begins. Is it when there is a living organ in the womb, or is it when the brain develops, or is it some other time.

in other words, is it a pizza when the ingredients are on the dough or when it comes outta the oven?

I'm not sure I'd compare it to a pizza.

[Leroy]

Can you put cucumbers on this pizza?