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With all due respect to Luhnow, the way that it was handled- essentially Walt being told that he had to do what ownership wanted- had to cause tension. Given his track record here, particularly at the time that shook down, I don't blame him for being annoyed by that or for it to create tension.

WJ has more than earned the right here to put his front office together the way he wishes to.

RC21 wrote:With all due respect to Luhnow, the way that it was handled- essentially Walt being told that he had to do what ownership wanted- had to cause tension. Given his track record here, particularly at the time that shook down, I don't blame him for being annoyed by that or for it to create tension.

WJ has more than earned the right here to put his front office together the way he wishes to.

I agree.

My litmus test is also would I want my rivals to have him his as a GM? My answer is an unequivocal "no".

Reds fans want Jocketty

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62807

Wow. Caught this news late. That's what I get for working.

First thoughts: Holy Crap!

Second thoughts: Well, he did make some bad moves...

Third thoughts: You mean all that front office tension crap was real? Holy Crap!

Fourth thoughts: We'll be just fine...

Seriously, I think that we'll be just fine. I like Mozeliak. He's well trained for this position and he has the right backgroung (i.e. scouting department) to do well in this job with the new focus on building from within.

I wasn't very happy with the way the club had gone in the offseason the last 2-3 years. I did not consider it a winning philosophy, and I had problems with thier inability to not only land big FA's but also retain thier own big FA's (namely Renteria, but also Suppan and Weaver).

I don't think that firing him was the right move; I would have expected a resignation. We'll just have to see how this goes.

RC21 wrote:With all due respect to Luhnow, the way that it was handled- essentially Walt being told that he had to do what ownership wanted- had to cause tension. Given his track record here, particularly at the time that shook down, I don't blame him for being annoyed by that or for it to create tension.

WJ has more than earned the right here to put his front office together the way he wishes to.

Owners giving carte blanche to a GM, even one as successful as Walt, is asking quite a bit don't you think?

RC21 wrote:WJ has more than earned the right here to put his front office together the way he wishes to.

If Jocketty had been forced to work with DeWitt's idiot brother (from "Dirty Rotten Scoundrels") then I could see the point here. Luhnow's bright enough that unless he's the biggest jerk on the face of the earth, Jocketty should've been able and willing to work with him.

I like Jocketty's history and don't think he deserved the negative publicity that comes with a dismissal, but the team is an expensive mess and it wasn't getting better any time soon. As Boyer put it a while back, the Cardinals needed somebody to re-focus on the mission statement, step up and exercise some leadership. DeWitt just did that.

the more this is talked about the more "mutual" comes into it.

Obviously, Walt isn't resigning and giving up his last year of his contract, but I don't know that "fired" is the right word, either.

Well, I step away for a bit and this bomb happens. I am also semi-torn with this. Obviously I love Jocketty for what he did for the Cardinals. Brought them back from the landfill and into big a class successful grade A organization. That is something every Cardinal fan should be thankful for. The Cardinals are in better shape now than they were when they hired him. That said, you can have the same GM, manager, etc. forever. There will always be a time when you have to change leadership. I wish things would have worked out so that Walt could have stepped away on his own terms, but I guess with the personalities being such that was reported it would have been impossible for everyone to remain happy. Perhaps getting a new GM was easier than selectively cleaning house for a GM that only had 1 year left on a contract. Jocketty has been more good than bad, but eventually an organization has to move on. I wish for the next GM to be as successful as Walt.

heyzeus wrote:I see a lot of the recent problems as related to ownership/budget. I'm fearful that the owners will just install some yes man.

Yep, that is my fear as well, zeus.

RC21 wrote:With all due respect to Luhnow, the way that it was handled- essentially Walt being told that he had to do what ownership wanted- had to cause tension. Given his track record here, particularly at the time that shook down, I don't blame him for being annoyed by that or for it to create tension.

WJ has more than earned the right here to put his front office together the way he wishes to.

Normally I would agree, except that the minor league system was in shambles three-four years ago. The move to Luhnow was clearly the right move. The '05 and '06 drafts have been outstanding, and I think you have to give Mozeliak and Luhnow a lot of credit for that.

THAT SAID, I don't know enough about this situation to determine how much different things would be in that front office if Jocketty had gotten his way. I don't think any of us do.

All I can say is that Mo and Luhnow have done a fantastic job in the last two years, when they were working with each other to direct the drafting, scouting, etc. Over the same period of time Jocketty has allowed the big league club to slip and made some very questionable decisions along the way.

All I'm really saying is that I think there's more to this than just Jocketty not getting his way. There seems to be a reason why DeWitt forced Jocketty to accept Luhnow, and the results seem to support DeWitt... at least in the minor league department.