Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin

[wart57]

Oh, boy. Here we go again.

Sorry, i forgot the

[Fat Strat]

Rove's thoughts on the convention (which I missed tonight while doing other things)...

Tonight in many ways "demolished" the view of Obama as being bi-partisan, and setting McCain up as the one who is truly reaching across the aisle.

Having missed the speech, I can't speak to the accuracy of this. I will say that McCain has gotten further with this line of thought than any other recent republican candidate that comes to mind and has a record in congress to back this up. Anyone remember when it was rumored that McCain was a possible running mate for Kerry? Anyway, I think that Leiberman speaking at the convention is another example of this current republican leadership's willingness to cross lines, as was Leiberman's strong candidacy for the VP role. I think it's also a pretty strong claim that Leiberman makes in stating that Obama hasn't broken for the democratic party line in his short history in the senate. I don't know if that's true or not, but I certainly can't think of any significant votes where Obama crossed the aisle.

[jim]

More Palin vetting. She was a part owner in a car wash that failed to pay its taxes. It's become a feeding frenzy.

I've never seen anything like it. The pick seems very dubious.

[PujolJunkie]

I heard she returned a Video tape late.....and it wasn't re-wound!

I know you didn't say that this was on the same level as not filing your taxes, but uhh.. I don't understand what your grievance is about all of the things that have come out about her? If John McCain would have actually vetted her first instead of saying "YOUNG HOT LADY VP HILLARY VOTERZ," this crap wouldn't have had to be done by citizen journalists and bloggers.

All of the things that have been revealed have been pretty serious. I could understand your snarkiness if you had a legitimate complaint about triviality of the issues, but these have all been pretty big grievances.

[docellis]

I've never seen anything like it. The pick seems very dubious.

I think the pick is a slimey gimmick designed to pick up all the angry Hilary voters. I think they literally sat around a giant mahogany table, smoking cigars and laughing at how great a trick it is to pick a woman and steal away all those votes.

(I'm insulted I guess is what I should say)

[clement]

I appreciate jim's point not because I think education or even intelligence is the end-all and be-all. But I do feel that the Republican party in particular has framed intelligence and education as being "elitist" and they seem to have gone out of their way selecting candidates who people perceive can drink a beer and tell a good fart joke as opposed to people who can play the part of statesperson in dealing with domestic and international problems and constituents. And while I'm not suggesting that McCain hasn't made up for it with his years of public service, even he finished almost at the very bottom of his class at the Naval Academy, a place where everyone knew exactly who he was the son of.

Going back many pages to ghost's question about Palin's experience:

I think that the experience is definitely an issue with Palin. If being president were primarily about dealing with budgets, I'd agree with you, but there is a big difference between being president and being a governor. When you are governor you don't have to pay attention to what's going on outside of the borders of your state, much less outside of the country. Now obviously there have been many governors who have become president and done a stand-up job of it, so the resume experience issue in Palin's case is not the only thing to take into account. But if she doesn't have the experience you start to look at other signs. How does she carry herself, can you see her going toe to toe with a Putin or a Sarkozy or a Wen? That's a decision that everyone has to come to for themselves, as they have done so with Obama over the past 2 years or so. If you see her as being able to fit into that role, then you don't have that concern and can make your decision based on other issues alone. I think a lot of people will disagree with you, and therefore the experience factor will resonate with them, just as the experience factor that McCain has been playing up for the past 4 months with respect to Obama will have an impact with some voters.

But if it were only the experience factor with Palin, I'd say that her candidacy would play out as a wash. Unfortunately for McCain, there are a lot more things to be concerned about:

- the ethics investigation and abuse of power accusations
- her history of lobbying for earmarks for her community
- the blatantly false statement she made during her introductory speech where she says, "i told congress 'thanks but no thanks' on that bridge to nowhere" (she actually used her support for it in her campaign for governor)
- her (and her husband's) alleged former association with secessionist movements/parties
- her rather extreme views on many moral issues, that while play well with evangelicals, make many people, including independents and mainstream conservatives uncomfortable
- her questionable ties to the oil industry, which also raises questions about her environmental record (for example, her opposition to listing polar bears as endangered, and her support for drilling in the Arctic Wildlife Refuge (which McCain opposes))
- her employment of a Washington lobbying firm to get $27 million in earmarks for her 8000 person town when she was mayor (even though she is being portrayed as being against earmarks - and that is a HUGE amount for a community of that size)
- Alaska's request for ~$200 million in earmarks in next year's budget (which is more per capita than any other state receives), directly to now indicted Congressman Ted Stevens, who she now distances herself from and who McCain has demonized heavily in the past for his ties pork-barrel spending and earmarking
- she has hired a prominent law firm (partially at taxpayer expense) to defend herself in the current "troopergate" investigation, which will obviously require some degree of her attention between now and election day

Now you add peripheral private personal life things that most intelligent people will disregard like her daughter's pregnancy, her husband's DUI, and her own strange behaviour when delivering her 5th child, and you have tabloid stories that while shouldn't have any relevance, will be fodder for the media to go out and dig deeper into these areas. No matter what most people think about these stories' relevance, the fact is that their coverage will not just go away even though it should, and it will have an adverse effect on Palin being able to win people over. Remember, most people who actually follow politics didn't even know who she was before last week, so when these kinds of stories accompany your introduction, it creates a bad first impression, deserved or not.

On top of all that, you add in stories from pretty mainstream and credible media outlets making claims that McCain didn't fully vet her before choosing her, that he had only met her once in his whole life before selecting her, that the element of surprise was a primary concern for him in leading up to the Palin announcement, and that the choice was not entirely his, but was pressured on him by people like Tony Perkins and James Dobson, after they vetoed his preferred options, and this becomes huge problem for McCain's credibility and image.

I'm not saying all of the above talking points are valid or true or don't have a fair explanation. I am saying that when you have a person that nobody knows anything about and within a week of introducing her to the country you have this many questions being raised, some important, some less so, and we're talking about a pretty bad decision made by McCain.

As one columnist put in an article I read, "Until yesterday, the core question of this election campaign was: Can you trust Barack Obama, who is so inexperienced? Today it is: Can you trust John McCain, who has such erratic judgment?"

[wart57]

I heard she returned a Video tape late.....and it wasn't re-wound!

I know you didn't say that this was on the same level as not filing your taxes, but uhh.. I don't understand what your grievance is about all of the things that have come out about her? If John McCain would have actually vetted her first instead of saying "YOUNG HOT LADY VP HILLARY VOTERZ," this crap wouldn't have had to be done by citizen journalists and bloggers.

All of the things that have been revealed have been pretty serious. I could understand your snarkiness if you had a legitimate complaint about triviality of the issues, but these have all been pretty big grievances.

I was trying to lighten the mood a bit.
Bad wart. no snarkiness allowed.
Sorry.

[Freed Roger]

sorry -topic over.

[wart57]

I've never seen anything like it. The pick seems very dubious.

I think the pick is a slimey gimmick designed to pick up all the angry Hilary voters. I think they literally sat around a giant mahogany table, smoking cigars and laughing at how great a trick it is to pick a woman and steal away all those votes.

(I'm insulted I guess is what I should say)

I think they picked her just to piss you off doc!

Oh, and I am joking, teasing, not serious at all.

[docellis]

If John McCain would have actually vetted her first instead of saying "YOUNG HOT LADY VP HILLARY VOTERZ," this crap wouldn't have had to be done by citizen journalists and bloggers.

love the all caps section