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Re: General Soccer Thread

Posted: October 11 17, 7:18 am
by thrill
You're right, and that's why it's so hard to sift through. EVERYONE is right. The euro snobs who blame MLS for mediocrity are right. The MLS snobs who point to the increased talent and depth around the region that correlates directly with the league's growth are right. People who hated Jurgen are right. People who hated Bruce's appointment are right. People who see the level of talent and professionalism and expected way more are right. People who disagreed and think our talent was overrated outside of Pulisic are right.

This is sort of just what happens in sports when your organization is stale but ultimately still too successful to do more than paper over the cracks in the foundation. Eventually, your team will fail because paper over cracks isn't any kind of foundation and past success isn't a guarantor of future achievement. Success isn't an entitlement. Constant accountability and innovation are necessary but it's impossible to pick the right innovations every time.

This is the same process that is currently happening to every sports team that I love. Institutional decay being revealed after long stretches of comfort and relative success.

You can't blame MLS for other countries success and our failure; it's an obvious direct contradiction, but I understand why people are looking for easy scapegoats.

This was Clint Dempsey and Tim Howard's last game. Probably others. People like them and Bruce Arena have been a part of the highest highs for the men's team and now part of the lowest low. Pulisic has been robbed of his first World Cup experience. The legacies of Bradley and Jozy, two of the best to ever wear the jersey are doomed to eternal questions that until now we're mostly unfair. This changes everything for American soccer. This will impact the program forever, and I don't think we will get the hard won but positive change that should come as long as Sunil Gulati is still part of us soccer. He has to go. He bears more responsibility for this than anyone.

It's insane that US fans finally got our super star and this is what happened. Younger guys like Pulisic, Yedlin, Wood, Acosta will be fine but the players like Jozy, Bradley, Besler, and Omar who would have otherwise rolled right through to 2022? I have no idea what happens to them. This ecosystem of predictable, non-competitive entitled spots is done though. Because of this failure and because the next generation is just better and deeper. No more looking at a 20 year old and knowing he's going to 3 world cups. That's over, except for maybe the elites like pulisic (who will still be 23 in Qatar).

Dempsey should retire tied with LD. Both robbed of their final bow. Careers that meant everything to malnourished fans and a culture hungry for stars going out like losers. As someone who has watched hundreds of hours of their careers, that hurts. This is a paradigm shift.

As for this game, Arena's tactics were a terrible idea against Panama and even worse against T&T. He just got lucky that Panama lost their minds and didn't bunker. Obviously T&T weren't that stupid. Michael Bradley isolated and alone was Jurgen's biggest tactical sin and Arena doing the same thing against counter attacking teams is unforgivable.

I don't know where we go from here but this is unthinkable. The weird part is that it feels sort of right with the state of our country. I now have zero things to be nationalistic about until Trump goes. I think we deserve that in a weird way.

Re: General Soccer Thread

Posted: October 11 17, 7:45 am
by go birds
embarassing

Re: General Soccer Thread

Posted: October 11 17, 7:50 am
by Jocephus
where are the cobi jones'es and alexi lalas'es that graced my sports illustrated for kids so prominently in the 90s

Re: General Soccer Thread

Posted: October 11 17, 8:05 am
by thrill
Jocephus wrote:where are the cobi jones'es and alexi lalas'es that graced my sports illustrated for kids so prominently in the 90s
You joke, but they're around. Cobi cried on tv last night and Alexi did this a couple weeks ago:


Re: General Soccer Thread

Posted: October 11 17, 8:41 am
by TimeForGuinness

Re: General Soccer Thread

Posted: October 11 17, 11:25 am
by Gashouse
The US clearly didn't play well enough through the hex, but I'm still kind of amazed that the 3 results that had to happen to eliminate them from even the playoff all happened. I would have given the US, Mexico and Costa Rica all better than 50-50 odds of getting at least a point on the road in their respective games, with the US having probably a 75-80% chance. Panama and Honduras are at least halfway decent squads so it's not too surprising that they would earn a win on home soil when a win is needed.

Re: General Soccer Thread

Posted: October 11 17, 12:19 pm
by themiddle54
What has happened to the USMNT recently reminds me a lot of what's frustrating about being an Arsenal fan. Arsenal constantly disappoints and proves themselves to not be a great club because every season they have a spell where they can't just put away the clubs they are supposed to put away. Last year it was losing 2-1 to Watford, 3-1 to West Brom and being humiliated 3-0 v Crystal Palace in the span of like 6 weeks. Those three games cost them Europe this year, just as the USMNT's awful run cost them a WC bid. The very good to great teams--soccer, basketball, football, whatever--are able to walk away with a result against a lesser opponent even when they don't play their best. It's a strong indication that the team is not as good as we think when stuff like this happens, and I hope the folks at the top are able to see that and to make fundamental changes to improve the org from top-down for the next cycle.

Re: General Soccer Thread

Posted: October 11 17, 12:24 pm
by thrill
It's very similar to Arsenal and there are plenty of similarities between Arena and Wenger. Good enough that you can't assume you'd find someone better without [expletive] everything up. Set in their ways, game has passed them by a little bit. Competition has gotten much tougher than it was when they were winning things. Tons of credibility and cache with higher up's. An ownership group (or governing body in US Soccer's case) that is more concerned with international branding/marketing/profiting than winning. Arsenal and USS need to win enough to remain popular, profitable, and relevant but they don't need to win enough where that's their primary goal.

Re: General Soccer Thread

Posted: October 11 17, 12:39 pm
by themiddle54
We need more youth academies like Dallas has, to generate better players. Basically, we need MLS clubs to be Tennis Parents. We can't expect the US Soccer governing body to do all the lifting in creating whole players. Guys like Mbappe are on a professional youth squad when they're 12, sometimes younger.

Re: General Soccer Thread

Posted: October 11 17, 12:42 pm
by thrill
It's happening. The last 7 years made a lot of progress, mostly because of MLS. The players are coming through. Pulisic is the tip of the spear. He might be the best we produce, but the next generation is the best we've ever had and there's no reason to see that progress stop.