Update: HOLLIDAY A CARD 7yr/120 million, p178

[Faceman]

But the Cardinals needed to make this move. Holliday was the only player available this offseason who made sense and he was the only elite player they've had a chance to acquire in years. If you wait and he decides to take a shorter deal with someone else in order to get paid later or if a big-market team jumps in, the Cardinals were screwed. There were no other options for 2010 that made them as good as Holliday will make them. He fit perfectly and medium-payroll teams have to act under those circumstances.
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This is a point everyone is missing. Everyone thinks the Cards had no other bidders, and held all the "cards". Well that is kinda sorta true. What is definitely true is that Boras had leverage also saying "hey do you guys remember what your offense looked like in April - June?" - because if Holliday goes elsewhere, your lineup is Albert and not much else.

Holliday also had leverage with the Cards. If they go to 5/85, are you really telling me that none of the big payrolls are jumping in, Texiera-style? Boston needs offense, no? Anaheim? The Dodgers? To say those teams weren't interested means they weren't interested in being the high bidder. They weren't going to let him take well below market.

[BigDCardlvr]

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.ph ... -cardinals

Fangraphs says Boras and Holliday win since we'll be paying him market value for an extended period of time.

I still think people need to consider the great likelyhood the market will drastically inflate within the next few years and also the likelyhood we're all dead before the 2013 season.

On the high end, Boras was looking for 8 years and 180 million dollars. Tex money, right? He got one less year and a lot less money and either he played the game as hard as he could to get the most out of STL per Holliday's instructions, or he worked really hard to get a bidding war going and was unsuccessful. I think it was the latter.

As I said way back in the thread and as Steve pointed out - bumping up to 120 mil and 7 years looks like a bad thing when bidding against self, but Boras saves face, and neither Holliday/Boras look like the idiots that Boras/Ramirez looked like last year. Holliday can come away from it happy with the geographic and financial stability, Boras can eventually say something like, "hey, all along we knew that ST. L was the place we wanted to be and we got a very good deal from them (better than their initial offer)...."

And most importantly, I think we end up with Pujols long term, I think we get a couple of more years out of LaRussa (unless things just fall completely apart this season), We have a very solid lineup offensively and defensively.

And neither side feels like they got screwed in the deal.

[TimeForGuinness]

Isn't it possible that everyone wins?

Hollliday wins: Gets fair value, years, and NTC
Mo wins: Cards get Holliday (and by default...possibly Pujols)
Boras wins: He gets nice paycheck and reputation isn't tarnished.
Card's fans wins: Holliday + Pujols + Carp + Waino together for 3 years.

I also forgot to mention:

The ladies win: HORP through the roof!

[skmsw]

Holliday also had leverage with the Cards. If they go to 5/85, are you really telling me that none of the big payrolls are jumping in, Texiera-style? Boston needs offense, no? Anaheim? The Dodgers? To say those teams weren't interested means they weren't interested in being the high bidder. They weren't going to let him take well below market.

This is an excellent point. Any negotiation has to find the right balance between the going market rate, and what you yourself believe the player to be worth. When the market is depressed, you can find a bargain; but that does not entirely invalidate what the value of that player is to you. And the lower the market sinks, the more likely other potential buyers -- who also know that intrinsic value -- are to jump back in. So not letting the market sink too far below that fair value has a negotiating worth of its own. The extra year and the extra few mill over 7 prevented someone else from jumping in and stealing the player, or resulting in a bidding process that left the Cards needing to go even higher than they did to get the signature.

Anyhow, it's not like the lack of other active bidders and the lower dollar values given in the present economy were not factors in this signing. They meant the Cards could go 7 years instead of 8, @ $17mm instead of $18-20.

Holliday gets the best deal of the off-season; that's what we all knew would happen all along. The Cards spend less than they were willing, and/or go shorter than they were willing to; they came in under budget. Back-slaps and high-fives all around.

[a_smith]

From Olney
"Holliday's contract:'10-'16: $15 m. annually, plus another $2 m. a year in deferred payments. '17: At least a $1 mill. in a buyout."

How much does it change the present value of the contract if money is deferred?

Does it make it a better deal?

[clevername]

I wonder if the 6-7 million left for this year includes that $2 million deferred. If we're really at $8-9 million the Tejada talk makes a little more sense to me.

[cards2468]

From Olney
"Holliday's contract:'10-'16: $15 m. annually, plus another $2 m. a year in deferred payments. '17: At least a $1 mill. in a buyout."

How much does it change the present value of the contract if money is deferred?

Does it make it a better deal?

IMO it makes it a better deal. Holliday is projected to be worth about $22 mil next season. As salaries across the league expand with time and inflation kicks in, suddenly the cost per win goes up... and even though Holliday will likely be decreasing in value each year from here on out, he should still be worth more than what he's being paid.

[stlouie_lipp]

Everyone has their opinion I guess, but I just don't know how anyone who wasn't privy to the negotiations can really "rate" how it turned out. If we knew everything, maybe we'd learn that Mo got fleeced; maybe we'd learn that Boras really screwed up. But, based on what we know, it truly looks like a win-win.

[Radbird]

Isn't it possible that everyone wins?

Hollliday wins: Gets fair value, years, and NTC
Mo wins: Cards get Holliday (and by default...possibly Pujols)
Boras wins: He gets nice paycheck and reputation isn't tarnished.
Card's fans wins: Holliday + Pujols + Carp + Waino together for 3 years.

Yea! A new corporate-speak term. Who needs a win-win when you can have a win-win-win-win??

I expect to see this in a presentation sometime this year.

[Fat Strat]

That's awesome about the deferments. I nailed the overall value of them (thought Mo would go for $2 million per to ease stress on current budget restrictions).

That means we have a true $7 million left in payroll... That confirms what Leash said.

I thought I would want to spend it on Lopez, but now, I'm thinking pitching. One more starter/reliever. One RH CF'er. I don't like handing 3b to Freese, but I don't really see another alternative right now. I don't like the idea of going into the season with Boggs and Garcia battling for the 5th spot in the rotation and PJ Walters as the next guy if someone important gets hurt (which almost always happens).