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Popeye_Card wrote:

jim wrote: I'm not so sure Kennedy and/or Spiezio could be as adequate a backup at SS as Miles.

I am.

If someone were to ask this question last year at this time the answer would be Kennedy. He's the better 2B'man and he played 200 games at SS during his MiLB career. Miles first game as the Cardinals SS last year was the 28th of his professional career, and only the second time he had started a game at SS since he was an 18 yr old in the GCL, back in 1995.

I have a hard time understanding why it's such a big deal. If Eckstein plays 155 games then it's a moot point, it's not like even Spiezio would kill us there for a few games, especially when you consider his bat. Aaron Miles doesn't hit enough to play anywhere for any extended period of time. So, in case of something a little more disastrous than just a fill-in, you're going to want to look beyond Miles for answers anyhow.

Is Cabrera the only useless guy still in camp (translation, there's no chance he'll actually make the team, is there??

phinstd wrote:

Popeye_Card wrote:

jim wrote:
I'm not so sure Kennedy and/or Spiezio could be as adequate a backup at SS as Miles.

I am.

--P--

Yeah, that's a tick on the absurd side to say Kennedy, or GASP, Spiezio could be good at SS.

I didn't say as good at SS, I said an adequate backup. Kennedy could probalby handle the glove as well as Miles, Spiezio can make up for it with his bat.

haltz wrote:

Popeye_Card wrote:

jim wrote: I'm not so sure Kennedy and/or Spiezio could be as adequate a backup at SS as Miles.

I am.

If someone were to ask this question last year at this time the answer would be Kennedy. He's the better 2B'man and he played 200 games at SS during his MiLB career. Miles first game as the Cardinals SS last year was the 28th of his professional career, and only the second time he had started a game at SS since he was an 18 yr old in the GCL, back in 1995.

I have a hard time understanding why it's such a big deal. If Eckstein plays 155 games then it's a moot point, it's not like even Spiezio would kill us there for a few games, especially when you consider his bat. Aaron Miles doesn't hit enough to play anywhere for any extended period of time. So, in case of something a little more disastrous than just a fill-in, you're going to want to look beyond Miles for answers anyhow.

I'm sure Kennedy can handle SS just as well as Miles if not better. But he's not a bench player--he's the starting 2B. I want him starting at 2B, not switching over to SS to cover for Eckstein one game every 2 weeks, or for the last couple of innings if Eckstein gets hit by a pitch and needs to leave a game. It's akin to penciling in Grudz as the backup SS for Eckstein in 2005 instead of Hector Luna. He could have fielded better there, but he was the starting 2B.

I'm certain that Miles can field better at SS than Spiezio.

--P--

Popeye_Card wrote:
I'm certain that Miles can field better at SS than Spiezio.

--P--

Miles isn't that good AND can't hit. Speez probably below Miles defensively, but at least can handle the bat.

Popeye_Card wrote:

haltz wrote:

Popeye_Card wrote:

jim wrote: I'm not so sure Kennedy and/or Spiezio could be as adequate a backup at SS as Miles.

I am.

If someone were to ask this question last year at this time the answer would be Kennedy. He's the better 2B'man and he played 200 games at SS during his MiLB career. Miles first game as the Cardinals SS last year was the 28th of his professional career, and only the second time he had started a game at SS since he was an 18 yr old in the GCL, back in 1995.

I have a hard time understanding why it's such a big deal. If Eckstein plays 155 games then it's a moot point, it's not like even Spiezio would kill us there for a few games, especially when you consider his bat. Aaron Miles doesn't hit enough to play anywhere for any extended period of time. So, in case of something a little more disastrous than just a fill-in, you're going to want to look beyond Miles for answers anyhow.

I'm sure Kennedy can handle SS just as well as Miles if not better. But he's not a bench player--he's the starting 2B. I want him starting at 2B, not switching over to SS to cover for Eckstein one game every 2 weeks, or for the last couple of innings if Eckstein gets hit by a pitch and needs to leave a game. It's akin to penciling in Grudz as the backup SS for Eckstein in 2005 instead of Hector Luna. He could have fielded better there, but he was the starting 2B.

I'm certain that Miles can field better at SS than Spiezio.

I can agree with that in principle, but I don't see how any scenario makes Miles that useful to the ballclub. God forbid he is a long term solution, and in the event of something like a 15-day DL stint for Eckstein, well, that's what your Memphis SS is for, or perhaps let Kennedy swing over and Spiezio take the keystone for a couple of weeks. Who knows, I just don't want Miles taking a bunch of ABs, and if he isn't I don't see a whole lot of use for him. I have a feeling that Miles is going to get a lot more playing time than a couple innings here and there, and 7 spot starts (even then, what's the big deal?) and that's a little scary.

IMO, you could shore up the offense a little bit by dropping Bennett, Taguchi and Miles for Marrero, Gonzalez and Rodriguez and not lose a whole lot defensively. Kennedy, Spiezio and maybe Ryan or Cabrera from AAA could handle SS in event of an injury to Eckstein, and Encarnacion, Wilson and Schumaker (AAA) could handle CF in the event of another injury to Edmonds. Platoon Gonzo (granted his defense may be more atrocious than I think) and Kennedy at 2B, feature an all RH OF of Wilson, Encarnacion and Marrero against lefties, keep JRod's bat where it belongs, in the big leagues ...

But I don't run the ballclub and that could be a quite a bit of a Playstation outlook.

haltz wrote: I can agree with that in principle, but I don't see how any scenario makes Miles that useful to the ballclub. God forbid he is a long term solution, and in the event of something like a 15-day DL stint for Eckstein, well, that's what your Memphis SS is for, or perhaps let Kennedy swing over and Spiezio take the keystone for a couple of weeks. Who knows, I just don't want Miles taking a bunch of ABs, and if he isn't I don't see a whole lot of use for him.

I dont understand. Didnt this exact same thing happen last year and Miles produced nearly as well as Eck?

Last year Eck went 292/350/344
When Eck was hurt Miles went 284/337/368.

Pretty close. I mean if Miles isnt going to hit well enough to even be an injury fill in, what does that say about Eck being the full time starter?

jim wrote:Miles isn't that good AND can't hit. Speez probably below Miles defensively, but at least can handle the bat.

Speez at SS is below you and me defensively. If I were the pitcher and I saw that red soul patch at SS behind me, I might just shoot myself.

And let's not forget here that while we're advocating Speizio for his bat over Miles, they were the same with the bat in 2004 and Miles was better in 2005.

Don't get me wrong- there aren't many cases I'd advocate Miles. But in the case of him or a corner OF/corner IFer with no business being in the middle of the infield.... that's one where I'll take Miles.

After his spring, I think Brendan Ryan is the best option to backup Eckstein if he were to get injured for an extended period. I don't like Ryan's numbers but he's got a good stroke and IMO could replicate Eckstein with the bat and the glove. I don't think he's '07's Travis Hanson.

Fan_In_NY wrote:

haltz wrote: I can agree with that in principle, but I don't see how any scenario makes Miles that useful to the ballclub. God forbid he is a long term solution, and in the event of something like a 15-day DL stint for Eckstein, well, that's what your Memphis SS is for, or perhaps let Kennedy swing over and Spiezio take the keystone for a couple of weeks. Who knows, I just don't want Miles taking a bunch of ABs, and if he isn't I don't see a whole lot of use for him.

I dont understand. Didnt this exact same thing happen last year and Miles produced nearly as well as Eck?

Last year Eck went 292/350/344
When Eck was hurt Miles went 284/337/368.

Pretty close. I mean if Miles isnt going to hit well enough to even be an injury fill in, what does that say about Eck being the full time starter?

Eckstein is a much better defender, and hopefully last year was a somewhat aberrant offensively, if that's going to be indicative of his line going forward, then that says bad things about him being the full-time starter.

I think Miles was playing over his head last year anyway, as bad as that sounds for a guy with a 75 OPS+. It's also about the roster spot and the fact that I have a good feeling that Miles will get 250-300 AB that are more like his PECOTA projection for this year, than his middling to bad performance last year. Like I said, I am just not sure what he provides marginally, whereas someone like EVG may actually bring something worthwhile to the table. Like a decent line against lefties from the keystone. (redundant disclaimer: I don't know how bad EVG is with the glove or if this is viable, it just intrigues me and I don't see what Miles brings as a positive)