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skmsw wrote:

The problem, to me, isn't that Reyes is throwing high and hard - it's that he has, for whatever reason, lost the command that would allow him to be successful with that attack plan.

. . . AND for whatever reason has lost some of the velocity that allows you to get some of those pitches by hitters, provides separation from the off-speed stuff, etc. And for whatever reason has lost some of the late-tailing action that allows medium-clock fastballs to pitch like high-clock fastballs.

Didn't Duncan work with him to purposely tweak some of his weapons, so that he could get deeper into games? Duncan wasn't sold on him being a "staff ace" with the weapons that he was using in the minor leagues.

Socnorb11 wrote:

skmsw wrote:

The problem, to me, isn't that Reyes is throwing high and hard - it's that he has, for whatever reason, lost the command that would allow him to be successful with that attack plan.

. . . AND for whatever reason has lost some of the velocity that allows you to get some of those pitches by hitters, provides separation from the off-speed stuff, etc. And for whatever reason has lost some of the late-tailing action that allows medium-clock fastballs to pitch like high-clock fastballs.

Didn't Duncan work with him to purposely tweak some of his weapons, so that he could get deeper into games? Duncan wasn't sold on him being a "staff ace" with the weapons that he was using in the minor leagues.

To add to the comment, I trust Duncan more than anyone on this board.

I don't think anybody here would claim to be more knowledgable about pitching than Duncan is. That hardly makes him infallable, and to disagree with him (as I, and several others, such as longhorn and steve, do here) is not an inherently unreasonable stance.

Having hope for Looper and not for Reyes is definitely outthere to me. Looper's peripherials are still not impressive, and I'm glad he's pitched well so far, but I have no faith he will keep it up. Nothing in his career (Minors or Majors) suggest he'll be a good starter.

I think Reyes will get better, because, well, he's much more talented then Looper.

The Third Man wrote:I don't think anybody here would claim to be more knowledgable about pitching than Duncan is. That hardly makes him infallable, and to disagree with him (as I, and several others, such as longhorn and steve, do here) is not an inherently unreasonable stance.

Considering Duncan makes a living evaluating pitchers, and is considered one of the best in the world at doing just that, I'd say that disagreeing with him on an issue like this is an unreasonable stance.

And again, Reyes more then any other pitcher on here gets more scrutinized after every start more then any other pitcher on this staff in the last two seasons.

I remember people here REALLY wanted Weaver back next season, and how good he is, and he wasn't nearly as good as Reyes was last season.

Oh, for chrissakes.....

I didn't mean that Reyes is completely hopeless. People are reading way too much into what I said. But since we're on the topic....

-Looper's got a lot longer history of effectively retiring MLB hitters

-Looper's got more velocity than Reyes right now

-Looper's got better command right now

The Third Man wrote:I don't think anybody here would claim to be more knowledgable about pitching than Duncan is. That hardly makes him infallable, and to disagree with him (as I, and several others, such as longhorn and steve, do here) is not an inherently unreasonable stance.

Duncan saw guys crushing his 92 mph fastball at the letters. ML hitters tend to do that a lot. I saw it, too, to a lesser extent than they did.

I don't see him being anything more than a 4, and he could lose his starting job at some point this year.

Socnorb11 wrote:

The Third Man wrote:I don't think anybody here would claim to be more knowledgable about pitching than Duncan is. That hardly makes him infallable, and to disagree with him (as I, and several others, such as longhorn and steve, do here) is not an inherently unreasonable stance.

Considering Duncan makes a living evaluating pitchers, and is considered one of the best in the world at doing just that, I'd say that disagreeing with him on an issue like this is an unreasonable stance.

Question authority!

I think the dividing line for Reyes is between the people labeling him a future star based on his minor-league peripherals and the people who have watched him in the big leagues and don't see that upside.

If he ends up being a mid-level starting pitcher, he still has value.