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The point of my post was who really gives a rat's how popular a sport is. If it is something you enjoy and remains viable, then who cares?

Yes, it is a shame that the NHL is struggling in a couple of markets (where it shouldn't be anyway), but they can move those teams to markets that can easily support them. This isn't a problem specific to the NHL though. Even the mighty NFL has to relocate teams from time to time.

Bottom line, a lockout would be dumb. But I am not concerned about popularity. After you get past a core group, you just pick up dumb bandwagon fans anyway.

longhornbaseball wrote:

jim wrote:

TimeForGuinness wrote:

pioneer98 wrote:This is pathetic. The NHL cannot afford to lose fans. They are just speeding up the date to when soccer passes them on the list of popular team sports.

Pretty much.

I think soccer eclipses hockey within 5 years...even without a lockout.

No way. Pro soccer will never ever be popular in the U.S. Ever.

Yep. I don't know what country you guys are living in.

Neither of you are paying attention.

Popeye_Card wrote:The point of my post was who really gives a rat's how popular a sport is. If it is something you enjoy and remains viable, then who cares?

Yes, it is a shame that the NHL is struggling in a couple of markets (where it shouldn't be anyway), but they can move those teams to markets that can easily support them. This isn't a problem specific to the NHL though. Even the mighty NFL has to relocate teams from time to time.

Bottom line, a lockout would be dumb. But I am not concerned about popularity. After you get past a core group, you just pick up dumb bandwagon fans anyway.

I agree, I was just making the point that soccer is really taking roots in the US and will probably surpass the NHL in popularity. Doesn't make one better than the other. People watched a metric crap ton of golf when Tiger was at his peak...now they've fallen back. NHL will probably do the same since they can't take their heads out of their collective asses.

TimeForGuinness wrote:

longhornbaseball wrote:

jim wrote:

TimeForGuinness wrote:

pioneer98 wrote:This is pathetic. The NHL cannot afford to lose fans. They are just speeding up the date to when soccer passes them on the list of popular team sports.

Pretty much.

I think soccer eclipses hockey within 5 years...even without a lockout.

No way. Pro soccer will never ever be popular in the U.S. Ever.

Yep. I don't know what country you guys are living in.

Neither of you are paying attention.

Revenues for the MSL are an order of magnitude lower than the NHL. Franchise values, attendance, ... whatever number you want to use the MSL isn't on the sports landscape like the NHL.

jim wrote:

TimeForGuinness wrote:

longhornbaseball wrote:

jim wrote:

TimeForGuinness wrote:

pioneer98 wrote:This is pathetic. The NHL cannot afford to lose fans. They are just speeding up the date to when soccer passes them on the list of popular team sports.

Pretty much.

I think soccer eclipses hockey within 5 years...even without a lockout.

No way. Pro soccer will never ever be popular in the U.S. Ever.

Yep. I don't know what country you guys are living in.

Neither of you are paying attention.

Revenues for the MSL are an order of magnitude lower than the NHL. Franchise values, attendance, ... whatever number you want to use the MSL isn't on the sports landscape like the NHL.

League Revenue
NFL $11B
MLB $7B
NBA $3.8B
NHL $3.3B
MLS $0.28B

Yeah, right now MLS::NHL as NHL::NFL. Actually way worse by percentage (NHL = 11xMLS, NFL = 3.3xNHL).

But that's revenue, not popularity. Soccer is popular enough, but hey, so is NASCAR.

Regardless, the NHL is fairly healthy. Doesn't mean a lockout is OK, but I don't think it would be any sort of death knell, unless it wipes out a full season again.

How about attendance? How many people are going to games? I live in the Chicago area, and I'm sure we have a pro team - in fact I'm almost positive because I think they built a new stadium that holds a whopping - what 20K? Maybe the size of the indoor arena the Blackhawks sell out 40+ games a year. I just looked it up to make sure - and I was right on the money - 20k. And they fill it about 3/4 full on average, with ticket prices way below the Hawks, and for far fewer games. $70 gets you a primo seat, $40 gets you a good seat. Good luck even getting in the door at the UC for a Hawks game for those prices.

Again, no one is saying that NHL and MLS are equivalent. The point I tried to make is that MLS is not the first or even second most popular soccer league in America. There's a lot of people who follow soccer strictly through television and internet out of necessity, since the highest caliber of play is in Europe, or in less frequent (and non-local) national team play. To use your example, the Fire(Chicago's MLS team) draw about 15k per game, a number that has been mostly consistent through the years. Last summer they had an exhibition against Manchester United, and brought 61k to Soldier Field. You see similar crowds for matches pitting the US national team against decent teams in all sorts of different locales(LA, Chicago, Columbus, Houston, etc.).

But really, I feel like this has gotten too far into minutiae that isn't terribly relevant to the thread. The point is that soccer as a sport has a pretty significant following, and with increased access on TV and online to the best play, that audience has continued to grow. Hockey on the other hand, with the NHL holding the vast majority of the interest for American fans, could stunt it's sport with a work stoppage and lose "market share" to other sports like soccer. Whether that means soccer overtakes hockey a year from now, 5 years from now, 25 years from now, never, or 9 months ago isn't terribly important.

There is a reason why soccer die-hards follow teams and leagues in Europe: Because they are in Europe!

AdmiralKird wrote:

Joke 1: Yeah, but... Bertuzzi doesn't have free room and board. Apples/oranges.

Joke 2: He plays in Detroit, he deploys into a war zone 40+ times a season.