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Adron Chambers is only hitting .105 so far through 16 games played. If he doesn't turn things around soon, might have to consider cutting him loose.

clevername wrote:yup. I like David Freese a lot, but with control of him until he's 32/33 I don't know that we should concern ourselves with extending him. It'd be a goodwill gesture, but those generally don't turn out well for the club. Use him for his prime years, then if he's too expensive to bring back let him go and play someone younger at 3rd who will be able to at least match Freese in his decline years.

Freese isn't a long-term option for the Cardinals. His age and injury history are concerns. I would not be surprised if he was traded this offseason. He isn't getting any cheaper as he enters arbitration.

STL_Cards wrote:

clevername wrote:yup. I like David Freese a lot, but with control of him until he's 32/33 I don't know that we should concern ourselves with extending him. It'd be a goodwill gesture, but those generally don't turn out well for the club. Use him for his prime years, then if he's too expensive to bring back let him go and play someone younger at 3rd who will be able to at least match Freese in his decline years.

Freese isn't a long-term option for the Cardinals. His age and injury history are concerns. I would not be surprised if he was traded this offseason. He isn't getting any cheaper as he enters arbitration.

Freese is worth about twice as much to the Cardinals as he is to any other team. His 2011 world series performance still puts butts in the seats, sells jerseys and wreaks of that deep-seated pure joy brought about by Cardinal baseball. Plus he's a pretty decent 3 bagger.

For any other team he's just a pretty decent 3 bagger.

AWvsCBsteeeerike3 wrote: Freese is worth about twice as much to the Cardinals as he is to any other team. His 2011 world series performance still puts butts in the seats, sells jerseys and wreaks of that deep-seated pure joy brought about by Cardinal baseball. Plus he's a pretty decent 3 bagger.

For any other team he's just a pretty decent 3 bagger.

He's getting old for a player who has yet to play a full MLB season. He's had a history of injury problems. The Cardinals drafted several third baseman last year, and maybe Matt Carpenter could move there if Wong comes up soon. Freese will probably make about $4 million next season...and Matt Carpenter could probably put up similar number for much cheaper, while the Cardinals could probably get a nice return for Freese.

STL_Cards wrote:

AWvsCBsteeeerike3 wrote: Freese is worth about twice as much to the Cardinals as he is to any other team. His 2011 world series performance still puts butts in the seats, sells jerseys and wreaks of that deep-seated pure joy brought about by Cardinal baseball. Plus he's a pretty decent 3 bagger.

For any other team he's just a pretty decent 3 bagger.

He's getting old for a player who has yet to play a full MLB season. He's had a history of injury problems. The Cardinals drafted several third baseman last year, and maybe Matt Carpenter could move there if Wong comes up soon. Freese will probably make about $4 million next season...and Matt Carpenter could probably put up similar number for much cheaper, while the Cardinals could probably get a nice return for Freese.

I find so much wrong with this that I don't really know where to begin. Let's start with 'getting old for a player who has yet to play a full mlb season'. Freese has played a full season. Carpenter is the one who hasn't. They have almost identical career OPS+ numbers. So, yeah, maybe Carpenter could do what Freese has done. Fine, but the crux of your argument is twofold: The first is that Wong is going to push Carpenter out of a position at 2B and in turn Carpenter is going to push Freese out of a position at 3B. The second is that Freese would bring a nice return. If part one of your argument is true, both Carpenter and Wong would bring more than Freese. So, to save $4 million and to hopefully equal his production, you're going to trade David Freese. The guy responsible for this moment, 2 years after he did it, while still healthy and while, presumably, still playing about as good as if not better than the guy who is going to replace him?

That's a horrible idea, imho. If you're going to trade Freese, at least do it to make room for a guy who's going to be a star.

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AWvsCBsteeeerike3 wrote: I find so much wrong with this that I don't really know where to begin. Let's start with 'getting old for a player who has yet to play a full mlb season'. Freese has played a full season. Carpenter is the one who hasn't. They have almost identical career OPS+ numbers. So, yeah, maybe Carpenter could do what Freese has done. Fine, but the crux of your argument is twofold: The first is that Wong is going to push Carpenter out of a position at 2B and in turn Carpenter is going to push Freese out of a position at 3B. The second is that Freese would bring a nice return. If part one of your argument is true, both Carpenter and Wong would bring more than Freese. So, to save $4 million and to hopefully equal his production, you're going to trade David Freese. The guy responsible for this moment, 2 years after he did it, while still healthy and while, presumably, still playing about as good as if not better than the guy who is going to replace him?

That's a horrible idea, imho. If you're going to trade Freese, at least do it to make room for a guy who's going to be a star.

Most people, maybe you included, fell in love with Freese because of one week in October 2011. Last season, in essentially his only "full" season...he hits 20 HR's and drives in 70+ RBI. Those are good numbers. When you account for his sloppy defense and injury problems, and the fact that he's going to get expensive over the next few seasons, I find it hard to believe that he's with the Cardinals beyond his arbitration years. Why would they draft three third baseman last year? Carpenter could put up similar numbers (less home runs, better batting average) than Freese while playing better defense at a fraction of the cost.

I don't know if Carpenter is going to play better defense or not. He may well be a little better overall, though that's far from a given. I actually had been one of Freese's bigger supporters through his wild days, so it wasn't just a week in October that made me support him, but your point is valid for a lot of the fans....which is precisely why you don't trade him for little upgrade in performance and to unload a relatively small salary. I don't know what he'd fetch in return, but if Carpenter is just as good as freese, and costs less, and is under control for more time, then he'd bring far more in return.

All that, and the Cardinals not being like the MArlins in any way makes it a fair bet that Freese isn't traded. Though, yeah, he's not likely here much past his arb years.

What youre saying may make sense in a video game or a fantasy league, but the Cardinals don't seem likely to do things like that.

STL_Cards wrote:Why would they draft three third baseman last year?

To be fair, one of those 3B is destined to play LF and all of the others is at the very least 3 years out on draft day. The MLB roster doesn't (shouldn't) affect drafting. There is too much uncertainty and time involved.

Serpent wrote: To be fair, one of those 3B is destined to play LF and all of the others is at the very least 3 years out on draft day. The MLB roster doesn't (shouldn't) affect drafting. There is too much uncertainty and time involved.

Good point. I'm usually not one to get too high on prospects, because I know that many times they never pan out. Most times, they are busts.

They drafted a bunch of 3B last year because each individual 3B was, when their pick came around, the guy that they thought was the most talented. Teams don't draft for positional need.