Obama/Biden vs. McCain/Palin

[Arthur Dent]

I like most of Obama's agenda. That's the big difference. If there's 75k people in Denver, or 200k people in Berlin who support Obama and want to see him speak, then more power to them. If there's people who see "hope" in Obama and want to make his election some sort of cultural movement, so be it. Obama has always represented "something different" to the average voter. Some people really like that something different, and they plaster bumper stickers on their cars. Other people really don't, and they pass along emails about Obama being a terrorist Muslim.

I think ghostrunner does have a point. I'm all in favor of people gathering together to support an agenda, but with Obama it's gotten into leader worship territory. People ought to be pressuring Obama to take up their agenda rather than looking on him as a savior figure.

[Popeye_Card]

I like most of Obama's agenda. That's the big difference. If there's 75k people in Denver, or 200k people in Berlin who support Obama and want to see him speak, then more power to them. If there's people who see "hope" in Obama and want to make his election some sort of cultural movement, so be it. Obama has always represented "something different" to the average voter. Some people really like that something different, and they plaster bumper stickers on their cars. Other people really don't, and they pass along emails about Obama being a terrorist Muslim.

I think ghostrunner does have a point. I'm all in favor of people gathering together to support an agenda, but with Obama it's gotten into leader worship territory. People ought to be pressuring Obama to take up their agenda rather than looking on him as a savior figure.

I would agree with that. But that's not really on Obama, that's on his supporters.

[GatewaySnayke]

Yeah, I think Barack Obama is the kind of leader that we need and I feel that he will get important things accomplished, but I'm not about to go outside and worship him. His supporters are just wrapped up in his oratory. It's weird, but it's not any more weird than it was four years ago when my fellow Dubya supporters (ewww!) were pretending like HE was the Messiah. It's easy to forget, but people were pretty fanatical about Bush.

[lukethedrifter]

I hear ya, ghostrunner. Glenn Beck is a tool and Ben Stein a dope but that doesn't change that the Obama campaign has taken on this crazy level of sloganism. I thought this was gonna be an intelligent campaign that focused on some real ideas. That's why I liked his speech on race and why I wasn't at all opposed to Wes Clark comments on McCain.

[ghostrunner]

I hear ya, ghostrunner. Glenn Beck is a tool and Ben Stein a dope but that doesn't change that the Obama campaign has taken on this crazy level of sloganism. I thought this was gonna be an intelligent campaign that focused on some real ideas. That's why I liked his speech on race and why I wasn't at all opposed to Wes Clark comments on McCain.

I think the speech turned the corner for me, even if I didn't pull all the way around until recently. It really was brilliant, and awesome. It's especially heartening that he wrote it (assuming that's true). It was like an essay question answer that assumed intelligence of the reader and showed an understanding of the issues and didn't just draw out and fill up space.

[ghostrunner]

Stein's dad was a pretty well known economist back in the day, and he's written on that subject in some depth before.

That's true about his dad. Ben, on the other hand, doesn't appear to understand the subject. Nevertheless, he's been given a weekly column in the New York Times business section and a regular commentary on NPR.

I don't think that's quite fair. He's got a pretty solid educational background, along with his upbringing.

Assuming this is true from Wikipedia. I know the basics are:

He went on to major in economics at Columbia University's Columbia College, where he was a member of Alpha Delta Phi society and the Philolexian Society. After graduating with honors from Columbia in 1966, Stein went to Yale Law School, from which he graduated as the class valedictorian in June of 1970. He's stated that he didn't have the highest grades in his class at Yale, but was voted valedictorian by the students because he was most popular.

[Arthur Dent]

Yeah, I think Barack Obama is the kind of leader that we need and I feel that he will get important things accomplished, but I'm not about to go outside and worship him. His supporters are just wrapped up in his oratory.

With some exceptions, I don't this his oratory is all that great. He's made a couple good speeches, but for the most part, it seems like the same tired fare. I attended a stump speech here before the primary and found it remarkably bland.

[Popeye_Card]

Yeah, I think Barack Obama is the kind of leader that we need and I feel that he will get important things accomplished, but I'm not about to go outside and worship him. His supporters are just wrapped up in his oratory.

With some exceptions, I don't this his oratory is all that great. He's made a couple good speeches, but for the most part, it seems like the same tired fare. I attended a stump speech here before the primary and found it remarkably bland.

Wow, you must be tough to please. He's an incredible orator. Is the substance lacking at times? Maybe. But his delivery is nearly perfect.

[jimedmondsfan]

it should be noted that the Berlin speech was following a free rock concert, I believe. That may have had an effect on the numbers, though I don't know why anyone would want to stay for the speech if they weren't interested.

Actually, he spoke between two bands at a huge free Rock concert...so people just stayed for the music and put up with the political crap...

[Arthur Dent]

I don't think that's quite fair. He's got a pretty solid educational background, along with his upbringing.

I'm sure he had a great education, but I'm going by his output, which is consistently dopey. Just to pick one example, in this column he claims that we can reduce the price of oil by balancing the federal budget through the use of nonsensical logic.