Edmonds heading to San Diego

[cards2468]

Eckstein
Duncan
Pujols
Rolen
Edmonds
Molina
Ludwick
Kennedy

vs.

Ryan
Kennedy
Pujols
Rolen
Ankiel
Molina
Duncan
Ludwick

Not really in specific order, but just a comparison

(I'm kinda thinking Izturis is the new Miles and the Cards might be going into a youth movement so Ryan might get a good shot at starting at SS)

[Popeye_Card]

Pujols may break the base on ball record in '08

Is that a bad thing if he's followed in the lineup by two guys with legit 30 HR power?

It's better than last year when he was followed by two guys with 30 HR power that had diminished to 10 HR power, no?

--P--

[Maclowery]

Weird to read that VEB comment about our center fielders. We've had three since 1982! Wow! That's the majority of my life, and just three guys. I'm impressed.

I'll miss Jimmy (apparently I drunkposted on this already, late last night!), and still would have preferred him to maybe platoon with Colby next year. But, who knows, these guys get paid to make decisions on players, maybe our management really feels that Rasmus is our guy for the next fifteen years or something! Wouldn't that be special - four center-fielders from 1982 to 2022.

Am I thinking too far ahead

[Popeye_Card]

Eckstein
Duncan
Pujols
Rolen
Edmonds
Molina
Ludwick
Kennedy

DID YOU KNOW? Even though this was probably the most ideal lineup for '07, we only saw it a grand total of 3 times (just the names--not even the order). Exchange Ludwick for Encarnacion (who was the scheduled RF), and we didn't even see it 3 times.

The most common lineup last year (6 times): C: Molina, 1B: Pujols, 2B: Miles, 3B: Rolen, SS: Eckstein, LF: Ludwick, CF: Taguchi, RF: Encarnacion

5 times: C: Molina, 1B: Pujols, 2B: Kennedy, 3B: Rolen, SS: Eckstein, LF: Duncan, CF: Edmonds, RF: Wilson(!)

Is it any wonder why we only won 78 games? We were never healthy enough to even feature our most ideal lineup for more than 5 games. And that's without even considering how bad Rolen and Edmonds were as our 4/5 hitters.

--P--

[maddash]

Pujols may break the base on ball record in '08

Is that a bad thing if he's followed in the lineup by two guys with legit 30 HR power?

It's better than last year when he was followed by two guys with 30 HR power that had diminished to 10 HR power, no?

--P--

Chris and Rick are about the best we got, so I shouldn't complain... but I'd feel a lot better if he was followed by guys who didn't have anemic OBPs and didn't strike out a ton. Yes, it'll be better than last year - provided we're not facing a lefty that day, or that Rolen still isn't given a 4/5 spot by TLR, or that Ankiel doesn't become a bust after the course of a full season...

I'm being overly pessimistic here, but realistically Chris is a proven question mark against lefties, and Rick is a question mark to perform at a major league level for more than two months. There's a legitimate chance that Rick may be "found out" next year and his power will become nullified.

[Popeye_Card]

Pujols may break the base on ball record in '08

Is that a bad thing if he's followed in the lineup by two guys with legit 30 HR power?

It's better than last year when he was followed by two guys with 30 HR power that had diminished to 10 HR power, no?

--P--

Chris and Rick are about the best we got, so I shouldn't complain... but I'd feel a lot better if he was followed by guys who didn't have anemic OBPs and didn't strike out a ton. Yes, it'll be better than last year - provided we're not facing a lefty that day, or that Rolen still isn't given a 4/5 spot by TLR, or that Ankiel doesn't become a bust after the course of a full season...

I'm being overly pessimistic here, but realistically Chris is a proven question mark against lefties, and Rick is a question mark to perform at a major league level for more than two months. There's a legitimate chance that Rick may be "found out" next year and his power will become nullified.

I don't really disagree with any of that. Generally, I like to look for slugging percentage in those 4/5 spots over OBP, and at least Duncan and Ankiel can (hopefully) provide that. Even looking on the OBP side, Rolen was at .331, and Edmonds was at .325 last year. It shouldn't be too hard to replace those numbers. Their slugging percentages were at .398 and .403. Not hard to improve on that either.

But yeah, we're running a fairly big risk of putting a lot on two guys' shoulders who could very well turn into pumpkins. Maybe we'll look into picking up a Kevin Mench to fill in as a righty platoon partner for Duncan to lessen this impact. (It's not like Edmonds was effective vs. lefties anyway.)

EDIT: Ideally, if Rolen is more of a singles/doubles hitter with occasional pop now, he's a good candidate for that "damage" in the #2 spot that LaRussa looks for.

--P--

[Fan_In_NY]

Fat, maybe you can help me see the internal consistency of moves where we are willing to pay market rates for low-impact veterans like a deficient shortstop and a good but luxury middle reliever because we want to compete every year, but not on a borderline hall of fame outfielder hoping for a bounceback year, because we need to free up payroll and/or get younger. I freely admit I may be missing the big-picture plan here, sometimes I look at the puzzle pieces and for the life of me I can't imagine how they fit together even though I'm looking right at the jigs that go together, and maybe that's happening here.

If consistency would mean we have more Izturis-like signings, then I would rather have inconsistencies.
Thats one of the things I dont understand. The Cards make a terrible move by getting Izturis (although one that doesnt kill them down the road) and this board rightfully goes crazy about how bad it is. Then they make a move and do the opposite and see that Edmonds isn't helping this team beyond this season, and they get ripped for not being consistent with the Izturis-model. They made a move in the right direction, (although people can argue if they got a worthwhile prospect) and they are getting killed on here because its the opposite of other moves. Would you rather have them make more dumb this-year-only moves?

[UK]

Freese has progressed defensively and could always hit, he would be a top 10 prospect in the Cards system, prob. neck and neck with Kozma.

A 24-year old that's never played about A+? I'm not sure how you're drawing that conclusion.

He's old b/c he spent 5 years at USA, not b/c he was stagnet in the minors. He's the 3 best hitter in the organization (sorry to Jay and Kozma), best defensive 3B, best hitting 3B, etc.

[UK]

College or no college, I still don't like the idea of a 25 year old (april 28) who's yet to reach AA.

I'm not a fan either...but, I am slightly appeased by the fact that he's a local product.

Not because it's a "feel good" thing for the community, but because he's probably been heavily scouted by the organization. If you're going to trade for an old prospect, you better have seen him enough to be sure that he's legitimate.

Him being from the STL doesn't mean much, since he was 17 yo. the last time he was scouted locally and might not have been drafted out of HS (maybe he was considered a tough sign). I doubt as he progressed thru USA and the minors that he was scouted more by STL than any other team.

With Rolen's issues and the lack of position prospects (espec. 3B) as well as SD having good 3B ahead of him, it was an ideal fit.

I question how much value a declining, oft-injured, soon to be FA making 8mil has. I think it was a good trade for him, given I question whether or not, he has more value than that.

[ThatGuy]

Well, I knew it was going to happen sooner or later, but disregarding whether or not it was worth it, this really sucks. Jimmy is the man, and I'm sure all Cardinals fans love him to death (plus, he was public enemy #1 to Cubs fans ).

I haven't read the entire thread, but I wish Jimmy the best and it's going to take a looooooong time to get used to seeing somebody else out there in CF.