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Re: Oscar Taveras
Posted: August 23 12, 7:59 pm
by phins
To be clear, Goldstein mainly speaks to scouts and uses them to form a consensus. Rarely says something without a scout backing him up or providing perspective.
A few others have put an 80 on it as well. I have written before about an at bat that impressed me, and it was an out. Showed fantastic hands on a fastball away that fooled him and he barreled the ball the other way. 3B made a nice play and threw him out, but other worldly bat control displayed. I don't know if I'd go 8, but he's the best hit tool I've seen in a few years and I've seen Myers, Hosmer, Profar and many of the other elite prospects to come through there personally (not that my opinion should mean much to someone on the Internet of course).
Re: Oscar Taveras
Posted: August 24 12, 9:03 am
by jim
phins I agree he is an elite hitting prospect, no doubt about it. But 80's are usually things you only see for stuff like Trout's speed or Harper's power. If that's what scouts are saying then holy bejesus. I'm not doubting it, I'm just a little surprised.
Re: Oscar Taveras
Posted: August 24 12, 9:21 am
by lukethedrifter
Kevin Goldstein @Kevin_Goldstein
September still a maybe. RT @KDubb_GoesYard: @kevin_goldstein When will we see Oscar Taveras in the majors?
Re: Oscar Taveras
Posted: August 24 12, 9:38 am
by phins
jim wrote:phins I agree he is an elite hitting prospect, no doubt about it. But 80's are usually things you only see for stuff like Trout's speed or Harper's power. If that's what scouts are saying then holy bejesus. I'm not doubting it, I'm just a little surprised.
Yeah, an 8 on the hit tool is pretty crazy territory.
Re: Oscar Taveras
Posted: August 24 12, 12:29 pm
by Swirls
phins wrote:jim wrote:phins I agree he is an elite hitting prospect, no doubt about it. But 80's are usually things you only see for stuff like Trout's speed or Harper's power. If that's what scouts are saying then holy bejesus. I'm not doubting it, I'm just a little surprised.
Yeah, an 8 on the hit tool is pretty crazy territory.
An 8 hit tool in MLB would be like, what? Vintage Pujols?
Re: Oscar Taveras
Posted: August 24 12, 12:44 pm
by phins
Swirls wrote:phins wrote:jim wrote:phins I agree he is an elite hitting prospect, no doubt about it. But 80's are usually things you only see for stuff like Trout's speed or Harper's power. If that's what scouts are saying then holy bejesus. I'm not doubting it, I'm just a little surprised.
Yeah, an 8 on the hit tool is pretty crazy territory.
An 8 hit tool in MLB would be like, what? Vintage Pujols?
I'd put an 8 on prime Ichiro as well.
Re: Oscar Taveras
Posted: August 27 12, 11:46 am
by Fat Strat
Callis on Taveras (oh, and it sounds like he's a really strong candidate for player of the year):
http://ht.ly/dggKI
Looking at Baseball America's Minor League Player of the Year candidates, the one thing that jumped out at me was Cardinals outfielder Oscar Taveras' strikeout rate this year (11 percent). It seems extremely low for someone with such power potential hitting in an advanced league. A quick check showed that Bryce Harper and Mike Trout (both 18 percent) had much higher strikeout rates in their Double-A stints last year. Are there other examples of power-hitting prospects with similarly low rates at higher levels in the minors? Does this factor into your POY discussion?
Gregg Patnode
Woodbury, Minn.
Taveras' gift for combining consistent contact with prodigious power did come up when we selected our Minor League Player of the Year. (We've made our decision, but I won't give that secret away here.) His strikeout rate is less than half that of the other slugger in the race, Royals outfielder Wil Myers, who has fanned in 24 percent of his plate appearances. The other position-player candidates aren't power hitters, yet Reds shortstop Billy Hamilton (18 percent) and Rangers shortstop Jurickson Profar (17 percent) whiff significantly more often than Taveras.
Taveras' combination of contact and power skills are rare. Before him, it had been eight years since anyone posted 250 total bases and a .550 slugging percentage while striking out in 11 percent or fewer of his plate appearances and spending the entire minor league season in Double-A or Triple-A. It actually happened three times in 2004, with Garrett Atkins (helped considerably by the launching pad at Triple-A Colorado Springs), Jason Kubel and Andy Phillips accomplishing the feat. Only Kubel (22) was close to Taveras' age of 20.
Between 2004 and 2012, just two other players put up those numbers in full-season ball: Bubba Bell (fueled by the joke that is high Class A Lancaster) in 2007 and Eric Hosmer in 2010. Hosmer is the best match for Taveras based on age and prospect status, and both should have bright futures. Taveras is the best pure hitter in the minor leagues and may not need much more seasoning.
Re: Oscar Taveras
Posted: August 27 12, 7:21 pm
by jim
To the K rate ... I was reading something Wong was saying about him. He said his hand/eye is crazy good, that he can drive pitches that actually bounce in. Bat speed/hand eye work together with hitting. The quicker you get the barrel to the zone the longer you can delay your swing to see what you are getting. You can make up for hand/eye issues to an extent with a lightening quick swing, because you simply can delay your swing longer and have a better idea where the pitch is. If you have great hand/eye, it can compensate for a longer swing. You have to start your swing earlier but you compensate with the hand/eye coordination.
The truly great hitters in the game have both, and that is why I'm so excited about Taveras. His swing is short and compact and lightening fast, allowing him to the barrel into the hitting zone with authority quickly. But he also seems to have the hand/eye coordination, which will mean he should hit the pitches with late movement as he makes an adjustment after the swing has started.
The perfect storm.
Re: Oscar Taveras
Posted: August 27 12, 8:38 pm
by phins
That hand/eye was exactly what I saw as well.
Re: Oscar Taveras
Posted: August 28 12, 7:31 am
by Fat Strat
phins wrote:That hand/eye was exactly what I saw as well.
I still can't believe I've never seen him play. Maybe I'll head down to Memphis if he's there next year.