How many Hall of Famers are playing now?

JL21 · Post by **JL21** » March 26 07, 1:17 pm

vance wrote:Furthermore, does Edmonds really have a case over this player?

279/323/482; 438 HR; 1591 RBI; 1373 R. Eight time AS; 1 MVP (2 other 2nd place finishes); 1 ROY; 8 GG.

This player played in an era where offense was not nearly as prevalent as Edmonds. If Edmonds goes in, it should happen after this player's induction.

See my comments from earlier. I thought you were talking about him and not Juan Gonzalez, which is a joke.

Your guy had an OPS+ of 119. Edmonds is 137, and he plays CF, not a corner OF slot (though this guy played CF for a part of his career).

In short, yes. Edmonds deserves it more than this guy.

MaskedMan · Post by **MaskedMan** » March 26 07, 1:22 pm

TimeForGuinness wrote:I've said it before and I'll say it again: Ozzie will be the last person to get into the HOF based on his defense. (Yes he had some offense, but he got in for his GGs)

Rolen and Edmonds will have a hard time getting in. IMHO.

It's a little early for Scotty but I dig what you're sayin...

Vance, the playoff appearances are just another level to add on. BW wasn't one of the best offensive AND defensive OF's in baseball during his peak. That's just me though, I respect your opinion

vance · Post by **vance** » March 26 07, 1:23 pm

Juan Gonzalez has better credentials than Edmonds. Apparently, at least on two occasions, he was considered the best player in his league. Two other occasions he was in the top five. Edmonds at his best was only considered the sixth best player in his league.

mcgee51taguchi99 · Post by **mcgee51taguchi99** » March 26 07, 1:24 pm

Can we get John Gall on this list since some younger players were mentioned earlier?

vance · Post by **vance** » March 26 07, 1:27 pm

And I'm not trying to bag on Edmonds; he's just not likely a HOF. He's very good. At this point, he's just not there.

There are guys better or at least equally good who should go in if Edmonds does.

To me, Belle and Gonzalez are both HOFers before Edmonds. Personally, I think Dawson is as well considering his numbers in light of the era he played.

I don't think Edmonds in the HOF is going to reduce the quality of the HOF. There are worse players inducted for sure.

And going with the subjective side, there just has never been a time when I've thought he was a HOF. When I watched Gonzalez and Belle play, I always felt they were.

JL21 · Post by **JL21** » March 26 07, 1:30 pm

vance wrote:Juan Gonzalez has better credentials than Edmonds. Apparently, at least on two occasions, he was considered the best player in his league. Two other occasions he was in the top five. Edmonds at his best was only considered the sixth best player in his league.

Let's see....

1. Juan Gonzalez's career WARP3 is 80, much lower than Edmonds and Edmonds isn't even done.

2. Gonzalez wasn't half the defender that Edmonds is.

3. Those MVP awards were some of the most controversial ever.

4. While playing a corner OF slot, Juan Gonzalez's career OPS+ was 133. JimEd's is 137 while playing Gold Glove quality CF.

5. Edmonds finished 4th in 2000 and 5th in 2004, twice beating the sixth that you say he had. More importantly, a lot of HOF's would have finished 3rd or worse through that time period because they would have been in the same league with Bonds and Pujols.

The notion that Juan Gonalez was a better player than Edmonds is absurd.

Popeye_Card · Post by **Popeye_Card** » March 26 07, 1:33 pm

RC21 wrote:
vance wrote:Juan Gonzalez has better credentials than Edmonds. Apparently, at least on two occasions, he was considered the best player in his league. Two other occasions he was in the top five. Edmonds at his best was only considered the sixth best player in his league.
Let's see....

1. Juan Gonzalez's career WARP3 is 80, much lower than Edmonds and Edmonds isn't even done.

2. Gonzalez wasn't half the defender that Edmonds is.

3. Those MVP awards were some of the most controversial ever.

4. While playing a corner OF slot, Juan Gonzalez's career OPS+ was 133. JimEd's is 137 while playing Gold Glove quality CF.

5. Edmonds finished 4th in 2000 and 5th in 2004, twice beating the sixth that you say he had. More importantly, a lot of HOF's would have finished 3rd or worse through that time period because they would have been in the same league with Bonds and Pujols.

The notion that Juan Gonalez was a better player than Edmonds is absurd.

You are fighting a losing battle. Juan Gone wins.

--P--

Fan_In_NY · Post by **Fan_In_NY** » March 26 07, 1:50 pm

Fat Strat wrote:I've added some possibilities to your list, most of which are still too young to be in talking HOF, but they are on their way, if they continue producing like they're producing. I put my additions in bold

Indians: Travis Hafner, Grady Sizemore

Seattle: Ichiro (BL)

Texas: Michael Young, Mark Teixeira

Just had a couple of points to bring up about some of these guys. I actually had an issue with someone like Crawford because he is slightly only above average but then again he is only 25 and maybe has a higher peak to come. But he really is just an excellent fantasy player, and very good player but needs like 15-20 more years for this production, or at least a couple of 135+ OPS+ seasons.

Now Hafner although he is a beast is already 30 years old. There is no way he will ever be a hall of famer. Even if he hits 40HRs each years until he turns 40 he will just pass 500 HRs which i dont think will be as automatic as it is right now.

Ichiro is really interesting, as his time in the MLB wont be as long or illustrious as it could of been. I think he will get in but it will interesting how people take into account his time in Japan.

Micheal Young is also never going to be in consideration. He is already 30 and still doesnt even have 100 HRs in his career. He is a typical 20HR 90 RBI .310 average player. I know that is great for a middle infielder of the 80's but that no longer flies now. Very nice player but no HOFer.

valley_card22 · Post by **valley_card22** » March 26 07, 1:58 pm

Thats why I left those guys off. And Sizemore hasnt been around long enough yet to even gage his ability.

The argument for Izzy is interesting. Im to lazy to look up the numbers but lets say in 2007, 2008, 2009 he gets 100 saves total...pretty conservitive number I'd guess. What would that push him up to? But the only HOF closers now IMO are Hoffman and Rivera.

StL Dan · Post by **StL Dan** » March 26 07, 2:00 pm

valley_card22 wrote:Thats why I left those guys off. And Sizemore hasnt been around long enough yet to even gage his ability.

The argument for Izzy is interesting. Im to lazy to look up the numbers but lets say in 2007, 2008, 2009 he gets 100 saves total...pretty conservitive number I'd guess. What would that push him up to? But the only HOF closers now IMO are Hoffman and Rivera.

Thanks, v. I was hoping someone would pick up on Izzy and run with it a little.

I need to look into his numbers some more and post what I find.