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Asmodai wrote:

GatewaySnayke wrote:

GatewaySnayke wrote:Wainwright. Plus, he's been better this season.

I'm surprised a Cubs fan hasn't been around to argue this yet.

Because I don't like arguing with a brick wall.

Let's keep this friendly, please. No need for personal attacks.

Asmodai wrote:Why bother using that when you can post xFIP which tells you more. 4.54 for Wainwright and 4.02 for Hill.

I don't think Adam's HR/FB is sustainable, of course, but we've got almost 300 IP where Hill is giving up a lot of taters. I can't remember what league average is, and 12% seems a little high, but not out of line.

Asmodai wrote:

GatewaySnayke wrote:

GatewaySnayke wrote:Wainwright. Plus, he's been better this season.

I'm surprised a Cubs fan hasn't been around to argue this yet.

Because I don't like arguing with a brick wall.

That was nice. I could snap back, but I'm in a "turn-the-other-cheek" mood.

Rich Hill has a VORP of 35.3
Adam Wainwright has a VORP of 32.7

Buuuut...

Hill's VORP for batting is -0.7.
Wainwright's is 7.3

Hill - 34.6
Wainwright - 40

Wainwright wins.

GatewaySnayke wrote:

GatewaySnayke wrote:Wainwright. Plus, he's been better this season.

I'm surprised a Cubs fan hasn't been around to argue this yet.

I was about to, but then class got out so I didn't get a chance to call you clever before you got impatient.

Transmogrified Tiger wrote:

GatewaySnayke wrote:

GatewaySnayke wrote:Wainwright. Plus, he's been better this season.

I'm surprised a Cubs fan hasn't been around to argue this yet.

I was about to, but then class got out so I didn't get a chance to call you clever before you got impatient.

It was honestly killing me. I knew Asmodai or Meph. would take the bait, too.

GatewaySnayke wrote:

Asmodai wrote:

GatewaySnayke wrote:

GatewaySnayke wrote:Wainwright. Plus, he's been better this season.

I'm surprised a Cubs fan hasn't been around to argue this yet.

Because I don't like arguing with a brick wall.

That was nice. I could snap back, but I'm in a "turn-the-other-cheek" mood.

Rich Hill has a VORP of 35.3
Adam Wainwright has a VORP of 32.7

Buuuut...

Hill's VORP for batting is -0.7.
Wainwright's is 7.3

Hill - 34.6
Wainwright - 40

Wainwright wins.

I could be wrong, but it seems like pitcher batting is not usually a very sustainable thing. It's a rare case where a pitcher has a great year with the bat, and maintains that for several years. Marquis is a great example. He's got a rep as a great hitting pitcher, but that's almost entirely built upon '04 and '05. The rest of his career, he's about a .400 OPS guy.

Wainwright could continue to provide value with the bat. But we're a long way from knowing. I think it's valid to include it in evaluating who's had more value this year, though.

RC, a while back Asmodai posited that Carlos Zambrano was a better pitcher than Chris Carpenter because he did more with the bat, and that Kerry Wood had a better season in 2003 than Carpenter did in 2005 because of this. I really don't think Wainwright has done a better job this season than Hill, I just saw an opportunity to throw that back at Asmodai.

GatewaySnayke wrote:

Asmodai wrote:

GatewaySnayke wrote:

GatewaySnayke wrote:Wainwright. Plus, he's been better this season.

I'm surprised a Cubs fan hasn't been around to argue this yet.

Because I don't like arguing with a brick wall.

That was nice. I could snap back, but I'm in a "turn-the-other-cheek" mood.

Rich Hill has a VORP of 35.3
Adam Wainwright has a VORP of 32.7

Buuuut...

Hill's VORP for batting is -0.7.
Wainwright's is 7.3

Hill - 34.6
Wainwright - 40

Wainwright wins.

i didnt say hill produced more than wainwright this season. don't put words in my mouth.

GatewaySnayke wrote:

Transmogrified Tiger wrote:

GatewaySnayke wrote:

GatewaySnayke wrote:Wainwright. Plus, he's been better this season.

I'm surprised a Cubs fan hasn't been around to argue this yet.

I was about to, but then class got out so I didn't get a chance to call you clever before you got impatient.

It was honestly killing me. I knew Asmodai or Meph. would take the bait, too.

im not taking the bait and havent said why.

Asmodai wrote:

GatewaySnayke wrote:

Asmodai wrote:

GatewaySnayke wrote:

GatewaySnayke wrote:Wainwright. Plus, he's been better this season.

I'm surprised a Cubs fan hasn't been around to argue this yet.

Because I don't like arguing with a brick wall.

That was nice. I could snap back, but I'm in a "turn-the-other-cheek" mood.

Rich Hill has a VORP of 35.3
Adam Wainwright has a VORP of 32.7

Buuuut...

Hill's VORP for batting is -0.7.
Wainwright's is 7.3

Hill - 34.6
Wainwright - 40

Wainwright wins.

i didnt say hill produced more than wainwright this season. don't put words in my mouth.

If you knew I was right, why did you call me a brick wall?